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External
Since: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:16 pm
Post subject: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing
Archived from groups: rec>photo>darkroom (more info?)
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Hi,
Since I've not managed to reache Lloyd Erlick's web site, so I like to
ask some basic questions about how to exactly do single-tray printing
here. Hope you professionals be kind to give me some clear answers.
Thanks in advance.
I already have basic ideal about single-tray, i.e. pouring-in,
pouring-out in only one tray, but I don't know ( For both RC &
Fiber ):
1, Does basic processing steps keep unchanged? i.e., Develop, Stop,
Fix#1, Fix#2, Rinse in wash acid if Fiber, Wash? Is there any
additional step needed? ( In searching google, I found some people
likely do extra Rine before Fix#1 and after Fix#2 and he do each Rinse
three times )
2, Because Developer is always one-shop usage, so I think dillute it
more would be reasonable. If I use Kodak D-72. What's a you suggested
dillution and starndard developing time?
3, What's the suggested Rinse time ( if Fiber ) and Wash time?
Thanks. |
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External
Since: Jan 08, 2008
Posts: 60
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In my most humble opinion, single-tray processing for B&W is not worthwhile.
If you have an area large enough area for three or four trays, it's
downright silly. For color, on the other hand, it is the rule.
IMHO
I use the old single-use rocking 'canoe' trays for up to 8x10 film, but only
for the developer. For prints, well it might be a good approach but so slow
and overall not worthwhile, IMHO again.
jj
And I've tried it
"Steven Woody" <narkewoody.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fcc777ca-7759-4a7f-9f49-0e26ab413343@28g2000hsw.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> Since I've not managed to reache Lloyd Erlick's web site, so I like to
> ask some basic questions about how to exactly do single-tray printing
> here. Hope you professionals be kind to give me some clear answers.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> I already have basic ideal about single-tray, i.e. pouring-in,
> pouring-out in only one tray, but I don't know ( For both RC &
> Fiber ):
>
> 1, Does basic processing steps keep unchanged? i.e., Develop, Stop,
> Fix#1, Fix#2, Rinse in wash acid if Fiber, Wash? Is there any
> additional step needed? ( In searching google, I found some people
> likely do extra Rine before Fix#1 and after Fix#2 and he do each Rinse
> three times )
>
> 2, Because Developer is always one-shop usage, so I think dillute it
> more would be reasonable. If I use Kodak D-72. What's a you suggested
> dillution and starndard developing time?
>
> 3, What's the suggested Rinse time ( if Fiber ) and Wash time?
>
>
> Thanks. |
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External
Since: Oct 31, 2004
Posts: 906
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2/19/2008 7:59 PM jjs spake thus:
> In my most humble opinion, single-tray processing for B&W is not worthwhile.
> If you have an area large enough area for three or four trays, it's
> downright silly. For color, on the other hand, it is the rule.
I agree. I'm curious; why are you (asking the O.P. here) interested in
single-tray processing? Are you working in a closet where you only have
room for one tray? Or is it, as I suspect, because there's some kind of
mystique to the Single-Tray Method, the One True Way to Process Photo
Paper? (At least, that's the impression one gets from Mr. Quinn's many
posts on the subject.) Do you think you'll get better results from it?
Myself, I really don't see the point. >> Stay informed about: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing |
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External
Since: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 20, 12:37 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob....TakeThisOut@but.us.chickens> wrote:
> On 2/19/2008 7:59 PM jjs spake thus:
>
> > In my most humble opinion, single-tray processing for B&W is not worthwhile.
> > If you have an area large enough area for three or four trays, it's
> > downright silly. For color, on the other hand, it is the rule.
>
> I agree. I'm curious; why are you (asking the O.P. here) interested in
> single-tray processing? Are you working in a closet where you only have
> room for one tray? Or is it, as I suspect, because there's some kind of
> mystique to the Single-Tray Method, the One True Way to Process Photo
> Paper? (At least, that's the impression one gets from Mr. Quinn's many
> posts on the subject.) Do you think you'll get better results from it?
>
> Myself, I really don't see the point.
I interested in single-tray because,
1, My room is not large, even thougth it's capable use three trays,
use one tray only is attractive to me;
2, Using one-tray method means I need to pour solutions back into its
container, this is easy to maintain solution temperature in a water
bath;
3, A well built, larger, dedicated photographic tray is not cheap.
I like to hear more your thoughts on the subject. Thanks.
--
woody >> Stay informed about: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing |
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External
Since: Nov 15, 2007
Posts: 19
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Steven Woody" <narkewoody.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4e00ee8e-3d53-4ee1-87bc-9c4773aa4529@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 20, 12:37 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob....DeleteThis@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>> On 2/19/2008 7:59 PM jjs spake thus:
>>
>> > In my most humble opinion, single-tray processing for B&W is not
>> > worthwhile.
>> > If you have an area large enough area for three or four trays, it's
>> > downright silly. For color, on the other hand, it is the rule.
>>
>> I agree. I'm curious; why are you (asking the O.P. here) interested in
>> single-tray processing? Are you working in a closet where you only have
>> room for one tray? Or is it, as I suspect, because there's some kind of
>> mystique to the Single-Tray Method, the One True Way to Process Photo
>> Paper? (At least, that's the impression one gets from Mr. Quinn's many
>> posts on the subject.) Do you think you'll get better results from it?
>>
>> Myself, I really don't see the point.
>
> I interested in single-tray because,
>
> 1, My room is not large, even thougth it's capable use three trays,
> use one tray only is attractive to me;
> 2, Using one-tray method means I need to pour solutions back into its
> container, this is easy to maintain solution temperature in a water
> bath;
> 3, A well built, larger, dedicated photographic tray is not cheap.
>
> I like to hear more your thoughts on the subject. Thanks.
Consider using a tray ladder, as per
http://tinyurl.com/yrb4np >> Stay informed about: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing |
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External
Since: Oct 31, 2004
Posts: 906
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2/19/2008 10:01 PM Steven Woody spake thus:
> On Feb 20, 12:37 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob....RemoveThis@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>> On 2/19/2008 7:59 PM jjs spake thus:
>>
>>> In my most humble opinion, single-tray processing for B&W is not worthwhile.
>>> If you have an area large enough area for three or four trays, it's
>>> downright silly. For color, on the other hand, it is the rule.
>>
>> I agree. I'm curious; why are you (asking the O.P. here) interested in
>> single-tray processing? Are you working in a closet where you only have
>> room for one tray? Or is it, as I suspect, because there's some kind of
>> mystique to the Single-Tray Method, the One True Way to Process Photo
>> Paper? (At least, that's the impression one gets from Mr. Quinn's many
>> posts on the subject.) Do you think you'll get better results from it?
>>
>> Myself, I really don't see the point.
>
> I interested in single-tray because,
>
> 1, My room is not large, even thougth it's capable use three trays,
> use one tray only is attractive to me;
Well, that seems like the only compelling reason to use just one tray
(although the "tray ladder" suggested here might be a workaround).
> 2, Using one-tray method means I need to pour solutions back into its
> container, this is easy to maintain solution temperature in a water
> bath;
But that's what makes this method much more a pain in the ass, in my
view; all that pouring in and out of bottles. And in black & white
processing, who cares about "maintaining solution temperature"? (You
aren't processing color paper, are you?)
> 3, A well built, larger, dedicated photographic tray is not cheap.
Really? At least here (the US), trays are probably the cheapest items in
a darkroom. Where are you? >> Stay informed about: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing |
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External
Since: Nov 25, 2007
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:28 am
Post subject: Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 20, 3:15 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob....DeleteThis@but.us.chickens> wrote:
> On 2/19/2008 10:01 PM Steven Woody spake thus:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 20, 12:37 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob....DeleteThis@but.us.chickens> wrote:
> >> On 2/19/2008 7:59 PM jjs spake thus:
>
> >>> In my most humble opinion, single-tray processing for B&W is not worthwhile.
> >>> If you have an area large enough area for three or four trays, it's
> >>> downright silly. For color, on the other hand, it is the rule.
>
> >> I agree. I'm curious; why are you (asking the O.P. here) interested in
> >> single-tray processing? Are you working in a closet where you only have
> >> room for one tray? Or is it, as I suspect, because there's some kind of
> >> mystique to the Single-Tray Method, the One True Way to Process Photo
> >> Paper? (At least, that's the impression one gets from Mr. Quinn's many
> >> posts on the subject.) Do you think you'll get better results from it?
>
> >> Myself, I really don't see the point.
>
> > I interested in single-tray because,
>
> > 1, My room is not large, even thougth it's capable use three trays,
> > use one tray only is attractive to me;
>
> Well, that seems like the only compelling reason to use just one tray
> (although the "tray ladder" suggested here might be a workaround).
>
> > 2, Using one-tray method means I need to pour solutions back into its
> > container, this is easy to maintain solution temperature in a water
> > bath;
>
> But that's what makes this method much more a pain in the ass, in my
> view; all that pouring in and out of bottles. And in black & white
> processing, who cares about "maintaining solution temperature"? (You
> aren't processing color paper, are you?)
Yes, I do B/W. But if solution temperature is not ranged around 68F,
i am not sure how many minutes I should put a paper in the developer.
B/W print is really develop-to-complete? I am afraid if I develop a
paper too much, it will goes darker than it should in normal.
>
> > 3, A well built, larger, dedicated photographic tray is not cheap.
>
> Really? At least here (the US), trays are probably the cheapest items in
> a darkroom. Where are you?
Buy a Jobo AP 8x10 plastic tray in China, you need about 8 dollors,
and 16 dollors for 16'' tray. >> Stay informed about: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing |
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External
Since: Jan 08, 2008
Posts: 38
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:43 am
Post subject: Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Steven Woody" <narkewoody RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:343b85e9-d7ec-479b-8187-eab6b5b98d21@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
snip>
> Yes, I do B/W. But if solution temperature is not ranged around 68F,
> i am not sure how many minutes I should put a paper in the developer.
> B/W print is really develop-to-complete? I am afraid if I develop a
> paper too much, it will goes darker than it should in normal.
>
How much does the temperature vary in your darkroom? If your darkroom is in
a "comfort range", perhaos 65-75F, you shouldn't have any problem. Color
RA-4 and film processing would be a different matter, of course.
>>
>> > 3, A well built, larger, dedicated photographic tray is not cheap.
>>
>> Really? At least here (the US), trays are probably the cheapest items in
>> a darkroom. Where are you?
>
> Buy a Jobo AP 8x10 plastic tray in China, you need about 8 dollors,
> and 16 dollors for 16'' tray.
Just because you are using it for photo processing doesn't mean it must be a
photo tray. (Actually for a 16x20 Jobo tray, that's probably not a bad
price!) I don't know what's available in China, but in the USA, you can
find a lot of darkroom usable stuff at WalMart and HomeDepot. >> Stay informed about: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing |
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External
Since: Oct 31, 2004
Posts: 906
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:49 am
Post subject: Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2/20/2008 6:28 AM Steven Woody spake thus:
> On Feb 20, 3:15 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob....DeleteThis@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>
>> On 2/19/2008 10:01 PM Steven Woody spake thus:
>>
>>> 2, Using one-tray method means I need to pour solutions back into its
>>> container, this is easy to maintain solution temperature in a water
>>> bath;
>>
>> But that's what makes this method much more a pain in the ass, in my
>> view; all that pouring in and out of bottles. And in black & white
>> processing, who cares about "maintaining solution temperature"? (You
>> aren't processing color paper, are you?)
>
> Yes, I do B/W. But if solution temperature is not ranged around 68F,
> i am not sure how many minutes I should put a paper in the developer.
> B/W print is really develop-to-complete? I am afraid if I develop a
> paper too much, it will goes darker than it should in normal.
[This may have been answered already]
Yes, one develops b&w prints to completion; no timer necessary, unless
one is trying to match previous prints made in another session (and in
that case, temperature could be a factor). It's a matter of learning to
judge the print density in the darkroom. Generally, you'd make a test
print or 5 or 6, look at them under good light, and choose the best one
and use that exposure. Then print and develop to completion. >> Stay informed about: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing |
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External
Since: Jan 10, 2008
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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David Nebenzahl <nobody.DeleteThis@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>>> Myself, I really don't see the point.
>>
>> I interested in single-tray because,
>>
>> 1, My room is not large, even thougth it's capable use three trays,
>> use one tray only is attractive to me;
>
> Well, that seems like the only compelling reason to use just one tray
> (although the "tray ladder" suggested here might be a workaround).
>
>> 2, Using one-tray method means I need to pour solutions back into its
>> container, this is easy to maintain solution temperature in a water
>> bath;
>
> But that's what makes this method much more a pain in the ass, in my
> view; all that pouring in and out of bottles. And in black & white
> processing, who cares about "maintaining solution temperature"? (You
> aren't processing color paper, are you?)
>
>> 3, A well built, larger, dedicated photographic tray is not cheap.
>
> Really? At least here (the US), trays are probably the cheapest items in
> a darkroom. Where are you?
This may very well be true for small sizes (up to 20x25...).
For larger sizes the single tray method is excellent. I use a Durst Printo
for all proofs and test enlargements (with RC paper of course) and make the
larger baryta prints using a single tray (up to 100x70cm...)
Martin >> Stay informed about: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing |
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External
Since: Apr 09, 2007
Posts: 36
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <fphebn$f45$2@aioe.org>, Ken Hart
kwhart1 DeleteThis @verizon.net says...
> Just because you are using it for photo processing doesn't mean it must be a
> photo tray.
I've wondered about using things like cat litter trays for processing,
but the proper dishes supposedly have a hard/dense surface to better
resist chemical damage/contamination. >> Stay informed about: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing |
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External
Since: Dec 06, 2004
Posts: 100
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 19, 10:01 pm, Steven Woody wrote:
>
> I interested in single-tray because,
>
> 1, My room is not large, even thougth it's capable use
> three trays, use one tray only is attractive to me;
>
Single tray processing is a great space saver. I would
need six trays to duplicate the results I obtain with one tray.
And that is just basic high quality processing. Conventional
six tray processing includes a developer, stop bath, fixer 1,
fixer 2, rinse, and hypo clear. I can do that with One tray
and need only two of the above six steps; develope -
fix. Both are Very dilute and used only once.
The little processing needed is done conveniently using
One-shot very dilute chemistry. I believe that is where Mr.
Nebenzahl fails to connect; One-Tray + One Shot chemistry.
There is No reason to use more than One tray if the Chemistry
is used One-Shot. I'm sure David is familiar with the rotary
process and the fact that some who do use One Tube
also use One-Shot chemistry. Dan >> Stay informed about: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing |
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External
Since: Oct 31, 2004
Posts: 906
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 2/20/2008 3:16 PM dan.c.quinn DeleteThis @att.net spake thus:
> The little processing needed is done conveniently using
> One-shot very dilute chemistry. I believe that is where Mr.
> Nebenzahl fails to connect; One-Tray + One Shot chemistry.
> There is No reason to use more than One tray if the Chemistry
> is used One-Shot. I'm sure David is familiar with the rotary
> process and the fact that some who do use One Tube
> also use One-Shot chemistry. Dan
Yes, I'm familiar with tube processing, as I use it for sheet film (4x5
& 9x12). For film, it makes a lot of sense to me, at least compared to
tray processing, with which I've had little success. (I would prefer
tray processing if I weren't such a klutz, since I belive it yields
superior results.)
And tube processing and one-shot chemistry aren't necessarily tied
together: I use both 1-shot (diluted developer) and reused chemistry.
Plus, the tube is a *lot* easier to pour in and out of than a large
print tray. >> Stay informed about: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing |
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External
Since: Jan 27, 2008
Posts: 3
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Dnia Tue, 19 Feb 2008 22:01:19 -0800 (PST), Steven Woody napisa³(a):
> 1, My room is not large, even thougth it's capable use three trays,
> use one tray only is attractive to me;
Use "tray ladder" suggested by David or maybe you can use vertical
tanks instead of trays (only problem to solve is how to mix solution
during processing to have even development).
> 2, Using one-tray method means I need to pour solutions back into its
> container, this is easy to maintain solution temperature in a water
> bath;
But you have to wash tray between each bath.
> 3, A well built, larger, dedicated photographic tray is not cheap.
Once as a tray I used kitchen box with a foil inside to keep it tight
- no difference to dedicated photographic tray, except that bottom was too
flat and sometimes was problem to raise paper with tongs).
So you can use anything what is able to keep paper in developer (tray, box,
PET bottle, trough, processing tank, etc.) - you will miss some comfort,
but not so much.
Greetings
Henry >> Stay informed about: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing |
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External
Since: Oct 31, 2004
Posts: 906
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 2/20/2008 7:46 AM Henry(k) spake thus:
> Dnia Tue, 19 Feb 2008 22:01:19 -0800 (PST), Steven Woody napisa³(a):
>
>> 1, My room is not large, even thougth it's capable use three trays,
>> use one tray only is attractive to me;
>
> Use "tray ladder" suggested by David or maybe you can use vertical
> tanks instead of trays (only problem to solve is how to mix solution
> during processing to have even development).
Actually, it was Lawrence Akutagawa who suggested the tray ladder. >> Stay informed about: Some simple questions about Single-Tray Processing |
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