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reflectors vs diffusers which are better for portraits?

 
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vincemoon

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Since: Oct 26, 2004
Posts: 2



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:41 am
Post subject: reflectors vs diffusers which are better for portraits?
Archived from groups: rec>photo>technique>people, others (more info?)

In this post by reflector I mean an object that reflects light and by
diffuser I mean an object through which light is shone similarly to a
filter.

I have been spending some time researching reflectors versus diffusers
in portrait photography. I was irritated but not surprised to find
very little discussion on the net regarding choosing between the two.

All I could find was that reflectors are more well known amongst the
general population than diffusers; that some people find from their
practical experience that diffusers do not work well; that some people
think diffusers do not work because they do not increase the area of
the source of the light significantly; that european photographers are
supposed to be into diffusers as opposed to reflectors; that diffusers
take alot of the brightness out of the light that hits the subject;
and that people seem to think of reflectors as more of an outdoors
type of thing and diffusers as more of an indoors type of thing.

Coming out of my own mind as opposed to internet research, my thinking
has been that since a problem is the color temperature of reflected
light is different than the color temperature of direct light,
therefore reflected light should be used instead of direct light,
because use of direct light unavoidably leads to conflicts between
indirect and direct light; and, so, therefore, the reflector is a
better solution than the diffuser because the reflector will produce
light that does not clash with direct light whereas the diffuser will
give rise to the direct diffused light and then also the reflected
version of the diffused light.

I have also been thinking that reflectors might do a better job of
mimicking reflected light such as shade light and light bouncing off
of walls whereas diffusers would do a better job of mimicking soft
light sources such as overhead fluorescent all over a big ceiling or a
shaded ceiling light. I think I realize a truth in that I understand
that since the result in photography is an exaggeration of contrast,
partially due to the fact that the camera sees color differences based
on color temp differences that the eye does not see, therefore the
mimicking lights should be softer than the lights they mimick.

Anybody have any ideas re the pros and cons of reflectors versus
diffusers?




David Virgil Hobbs
http://www.angelfire.com/ma/vincemoon

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cerveza61

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Since: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 94



(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:09 am
Post subject: Re: reflectors vs diffusers which are better for portraits? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 26 Nov 2004 00:41:40 -0800, vincemoon.DeleteThis@rcn.com (David Virgil Hobbs)
wrote:

 >In this post by reflector I mean an object that reflects light and by
 >diffuser I mean an object through which light is shone similarly to a
 >filter.

By definition direct light is light that goes straight from the source
to the subject, diffused light is light that is affected by an object
between the light source and the subject, so what you are calling
diffused and bounce do pretty much the same thing.
The size of the light source is the most important factor of the light
qualities. If you think about it an ant would be very softly lit with
wrap around lighting an inch away from a household light bulb. 20
feet away from the same light bulb the apparent size of the light
source becomes quite small, and the ant now casts a noticeable shadow,
has a lit side and a shadow side.
So putting a small diffuser like a piece of tracing paper over an on
camera flash unit does nothing but cut the power of the flash and
possibly smooth out any effects caused by the internal parabolic
reflector and lens of the flash unit.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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uraniumcommitt

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Since: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: 258



(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:25 am
Post subject: Re: reflectors vs diffusers which are better for portraits? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

This is without doubt the most incomprehensible post this year.

Congratulations, moron. You have made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

vincemoon RemoveThis @rcn.com (David Virgil Hobbs) wrote in message news:<6ed1146e.0411260041.55332805 RemoveThis @posting.google.com>...
 > In this post by reflector I mean an object that reflects light and by
 > diffuser I mean an object through which light is shone similarly to a
 > filter.
 >
 > I have been spending some time researching reflectors versus diffusers
 > in portrait photography. I was irritated but not surprised to find
 > very little discussion on the net regarding choosing between the two.
 >
 > All I could find was that reflectors are more well known amongst the
 > general population than diffusers; that some people find from their
 > practical experience that diffusers do not work well; that some people
 > think diffusers do not work because they do not increase the area of
 > the source of the light significantly; that european photographers are
 > supposed to be into diffusers as opposed to reflectors; that diffusers
 > take alot of the brightness out of the light that hits the subject;
 > and that people seem to think of reflectors as more of an outdoors
 > type of thing and diffusers as more of an indoors type of thing.
 >
 > Coming out of my own mind as opposed to internet research, my thinking
 > has been that since a problem is the color temperature of reflected
 > light is different than the color temperature of direct light,
 > therefore reflected light should be used instead of direct light,
 > because use of direct light unavoidably leads to conflicts between
 > indirect and direct light; and, so, therefore, the reflector is a
 > better solution than the diffuser because the reflector will produce
 > light that does not clash with direct light whereas the diffuser will
 > give rise to the direct diffused light and then also the reflected
 > version of the diffused light.
 >
 > I have also been thinking that reflectors might do a better job of
 > mimicking reflected light such as shade light and light bouncing off
 > of walls whereas diffusers would do a better job of mimicking soft
 > light sources such as overhead fluorescent all over a big ceiling or a
 > shaded ceiling light. I think I realize a truth in that I understand
 > that since the result in photography is an exaggeration of contrast,
 > partially due to the fact that the camera sees color differences based
 > on color temp differences that the eye does not see, therefore the
 > mimicking lights should be softer than the lights they mimick.
 >
 > Anybody have any ideas re the pros and cons of reflectors versus
 > diffusers?
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > David Virgil Hobbs
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/vincemoon</font" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/ma/vincemoon</font</a>><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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rag

External


Since: Jun 01, 2004
Posts: 1249



(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:40 am
Post subject: Re: reflectors vs diffusers which are better for portraits? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <6ed1146e.0411260041.55332805.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com>, David
Virgil Hobbs <vincemoon.TakeThisOut@rcn.com> wrote:

It all depends on what you want the end result to look like. They're
both tools in the ol' toolbox.
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user825

External


Since: Nov 26, 2004
Posts: 2



(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:55 pm
Post subject: Re: reflectors vs diffusers which are better for portraits? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Take a look at the product catalog available at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.photoflex.com." target="_blank">http://www.photoflex.com.</a>
This is not an endorsement of Photoflex products. I have found, however,
that they do a good job of demonstrating the use of their products and
showing the result of their line of softboxes and reflectors, etc. This
will help you to visualize the results of using the different types of
lighting techniques and help you determine what you need to get the results
that you're looking for--irrespective of the equipment manufacturer that you
choose.


Thanks,
Bruce

"David Virgil Hobbs" <vincemoon.TakeThisOut@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:6ed1146e.0411260041.55332805@posting.google.com...
 > In this post by reflector I mean an object that reflects light and by
 > diffuser I mean an object through which light is shone similarly to a
 > filter.
 >
 > I have been spending some time researching reflectors versus diffusers
 > in portrait photography. I was irritated but not surprised to find
 > very little discussion on the net regarding choosing between the two.
 >
 > All I could find was that reflectors are more well known amongst the
 > general population than diffusers; that some people find from their
 > practical experience that diffusers do not work well; that some people
 > think diffusers do not work because they do not increase the area of
 > the source of the light significantly; that european photographers are
 > supposed to be into diffusers as opposed to reflectors; that diffusers
 > take alot of the brightness out of the light that hits the subject;
 > and that people seem to think of reflectors as more of an outdoors
 > type of thing and diffusers as more of an indoors type of thing.
 >
 > Coming out of my own mind as opposed to internet research, my thinking
 > has been that since a problem is the color temperature of reflected
 > light is different than the color temperature of direct light,
 > therefore reflected light should be used instead of direct light,
 > because use of direct light unavoidably leads to conflicts between
 > indirect and direct light; and, so, therefore, the reflector is a
 > better solution than the diffuser because the reflector will produce
 > light that does not clash with direct light whereas the diffuser will
 > give rise to the direct diffused light and then also the reflected
 > version of the diffused light.
 >
 > I have also been thinking that reflectors might do a better job of
 > mimicking reflected light such as shade light and light bouncing off
 > of walls whereas diffusers would do a better job of mimicking soft
 > light sources such as overhead fluorescent all over a big ceiling or a
 > shaded ceiling light. I think I realize a truth in that I understand
 > that since the result in photography is an exaggeration of contrast,
 > partially due to the fact that the camera sees color differences based
 > on color temp differences that the eye does not see, therefore the
 > mimicking lights should be softer than the lights they mimick.
 >
 > Anybody have any ideas re the pros and cons of reflectors versus
 > diffusers?
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > David Virgil Hobbs
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/vincemoon</font" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/ma/vincemoon</font</a>><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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sligojoes_pam_

External


Since: Jun 02, 2004
Posts: 641



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:28 pm
Post subject: Re: reflectors vs diffusers which are better for portraits? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

David Virgil Hobbs wrote:

 > ...

 > Anybody have any ideas re the pros and cons of reflectors versus
 > diffusers?
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > David Virgil Hobbs
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/vincemoon</font" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/ma/vincemoon</font</a>>


Sure. There is little or no difference between the two other than
design. Both can work well if designed and used right, both can work poorly
if not. Either can produce various degrees of diffusers and direction and
spread.

The only real difference is quality of the design and construction and
how well they are chosen and used by the photographer.

I believe you will find more diffusers used by professionals, but that
may be different today. Back when I was in the business most of the real
professional gear was diffusion based. reflectors were cheaply made and
used mainly by non-pros who were more aware of the cost and liked the
folding (easy storage) features of the reflector designs of the day and did
not mind the lower durability and convenience of use of the diffusers.
Today there seems to be better quality reflectors available and they may
well be the better choice for the pro for work on location.

In short, both work well if you know how to use them.



--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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user107

External


Since: Jun 10, 2004
Posts: 3377



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:03 pm
Post subject: Re: reflectors vs diffusers which are better for portraits? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

David Virgil Hobbs wrote:

<SNIPPED>
 > Anybody have any ideas re the pros and cons of reflectors versus
 > diffusers?

First off, regarding the amount of light, the difuser seems to be more efficient
than a reflector in my experience and with the materials I use.

Regarding color, whether refelcted or difused, the light will take on the color
of the material. Difuser (softboxes) use a color neutral material, but a color
filter insert can change this subtely or dramatically. Reflectors can also be
color neutral or whatever fits the day. The larger the reflecting surface the
more difficult it is to illuminate it, and the more light is lost.

I've used thin cotton sheets as a difused source with the strobes set about 6
feet behind them ... this provided about 50 square feet of surface. The
photographer can stand right in front of this and hardly affect the amount of
light on the subject.

Regarding popularity, softboxes have been around for about 20 years, umbrellas
since ... well a long time. And umbrellas HAVE been used as difused sources
(shining light through an umbrella made of thin silk or cotton) for ... a long
time. Umbrellas are a lot cheaper than softboxes. But with umbrellas used as a
difuser there is a lot of spilled light that needs to be controlled or accepted.

Umbrellas and other refelectors generally take less time to set up than large
softboxes. Other difusion sources can include large frames with a thin white
material stretched over them (difuse all sorts of light, including sunlight).

When using a reflector, if the source light is distant from the reflector, then
both paths have to be managed. If it is refected in an umbrella, then it is
little different than a softbox.

IMO, the qualities ("softness") of the light off of a reflector like an umbrella
and those out of a softbox are little different, except in catchlights.

Catchlights in glasses and eyes are more pleasing when the shape is round. Most
softboxes are rectangular, so this needs to be carefully controlled.

In both cases, the larger the surface and the closer to the subject, then the
softest light is achieved.

MO

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm" target="_blank">http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm</a>
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-- [SI] rulz: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.aliasimages.com/si/rulz.html" target="_blank">http://www.aliasimages.com/si/rulz.html</a>
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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user107

External


Since: Jun 10, 2004
Posts: 3377



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:24 pm
Post subject: Re: reflectors vs diffusers which are better for portraits? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Uranium Committee wrote:

 > This is without doubt the most incomprehensible post this year.

It's okay Mikey, any post with more than 25 words is certainly beyond your
attention span.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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right1

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Since: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 115



(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 4:38 pm
Post subject: Re: reflectors vs diffusers which are better for portraits? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 26 Nov 2004 00:41:40 -0800, vincemoon.RemoveThis@rcn.com (David Virgil Hobbs)
wrote:

 >In this post by reflector I mean an object that reflects light and by
 >diffuser I mean an object through which light is shone similarly to a
 >filter.
 >
 >Anybody have any ideas re the pros and cons of reflectors versus
 >diffusers?

They each serve a different purpose, so you really can't say one is
better than the other.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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jpmcw

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Since: Jun 02, 2004
Posts: 1695



(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:46 pm
Post subject: Re: reflectors vs diffusers which are better for portraits? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Uranium Committee wrote:

 > This is without doubt the most incomprehensible post this year.
 >
It's very comprehensible. Well thought out question, well explored, and
thanks for posting it.

"UC" is, er, has a reputation. Expect it to morph into another before
absolutely everyone but me has killfiled it.

--

John McWilliams<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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shadowcatcher

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Since: Jun 04, 2004
Posts: 1578



(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:46 pm
Post subject: Re: reflectors vs diffusers which are better for portraits? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"John McWilliams" <jpmcw.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:sdIpd.465371$D%.123277@attbi_s51...
 > Uranium Committee wrote:
 >
  >> This is without doubt the most incomprehensible post this year.
  >>
 > It's very comprehensible. Well thought out question, well explored, and
 > thanks for posting it.
 >
 > "UC" is, er, has a reputation. Expect it to morph into another before
 > absolutely everyone but me has killfiled it.
 >
 > --
 >
 > John McWilliams

I, for one, have no plans to kill file UC. I find him very valuable for
entertainment on slow evenings.

--
Skip Middleton
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com" target="_blank">http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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uraniumcommitt

External


Since: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: 258



(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 7:26 pm
Post subject: Re: reflectors vs diffusers which are better for portraits? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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vincemoon.DeleteThis@rcn.com (David Virgil Hobbs) wrote in message news:<6ed1146e.0411260041.55332805.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>...
 > In this post by reflector I mean an object that reflects light and by
 > diffuser I mean an object through which light is shone similarly to a
 > filter.

Wow, what an insight!

 > I have been spending some time researching reflectors versus diffusers
 > in portrait photography. I was irritated but not surprised to find
 > very little discussion on the net regarding choosing between the two.

Irritated? What right do you have to be irritated? Use your brain!

 > All I could find was that reflectors are more well known amongst the
 > general population than diffusers;

HUH? Who said that?

 > that some people find from their
 > practical experience that diffusers do not work well;

What the hell are you talking about? Soft boxes are widely used by
pros.

 > that some people
 > think diffusers do not work because they do not increase the area of
 > the source of the light significantly;

Of course they do. That's what a soft-box is!

 > that european photographers are
 > supposed to be into diffusers as opposed to reflectors;

Who said that?

 > that diffusers
 > take alot of the brightness out of the light that hits the subject;

'Take a lot of the brightness out'? WTF?

 > and that people seem to think of reflectors as more of an outdoors
 > type of thing and diffusers as more of an indoors type of thing.

Soft boxes are used on light sources. Outdoors, they are used when the
light sources are taken outside.

 > Coming out of my own mind as opposed to internet research, my thinking
 > has been that since a problem is the color temperature of reflected
 > light is different than the color temperature of direct light,

What are you talking about? Reflection does not change the color
temperature of light unless the reflector is not white or silver.

 > therefore reflected light should be used instead of direct light,
 > because use of direct light unavoidably leads to conflicts between
 > indirect and direct light;

'Conflicts'? What does that mean?

 > and, so, therefore, the reflector is a
 > better solution than the diffuser because the reflector will produce
 > light that does not clash with direct light whereas the diffuser will
 > give rise to the direct diffused light and then also the reflected
 > version of the diffused light.

'Clash'? How the hell does light 'clash'?

 > I have also been thinking that reflectors might do a better job of
 > mimicking reflected light such as shade light and light bouncing off
 > of walls

'Reflectors....mimicking reflected light.....' Now there's one for the
ages!

 > whereas diffusers would do a better job of mimicking soft
 > light sources such as overhead fluorescent all over a big ceiling or a
 > shaded ceiling light. I think I realize a truth in that I understand
 > that since the result in photography is an exaggeration of contrast,

HUH?

 > partially due to the fact that the camera sees color differences based
 > on color temp differences that the eye does not see,

HUH?

 > therefore the
 > mimicking lights should be softer than the lights they mimick.

HUH?

 > Anybody have any ideas re the pros and cons of reflectors versus
 > diffusers?
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > David Virgil Hobbs
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.angelfire.com/ma/vincemoon</font" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/ma/vincemoon</font</a>>

I am absolutely awestruck by your complete imbecility.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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user107

External


Since: Jun 10, 2004
Posts: 3377



(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:06 pm
Post subject: Re: reflectors vs diffusers which are better for portraits? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Uranium Committee wrote:


 >
 > I am absolutely awestruck by your complete imbecility.


We take your imbecility as a matter of course, Mikey.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm" target="_blank">http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm</a>
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm" target="_blank">http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm</a>
-- [SI] gallery: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.pbase.com/shootin" target="_blank">http://www.pbase.com/shootin</a>
-- [SI] rulz: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.aliasimages.com/si/rulz.html" target="_blank">http://www.aliasimages.com/si/rulz.html</a>
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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jps

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Since: Jun 02, 2004
Posts: 1777



(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:09 am
Post subject: Re: reflectors vs diffusers which are better for portraits? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In message <bi6eq0lenpgsggvjt931heepsbphg9qs4g DeleteThis @4ax.com>,
McLeod <cerveza61 DeleteThis @sympatico.ca> wrote:

 >So putting a small diffuser like a piece of tracing paper over an on
 >camera flash unit does nothing but cut the power of the flash and
 >possibly smooth out any effects caused by the internal parabolic
 >reflector and lens of the flash unit.

Unless it is large and far from the flash; then the light hits the
subject from a greater range of angles.
--

<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <JPS DeleteThis @no.komm>
  ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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uraniumcommitt

External


Since: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: 258



(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:34 pm
Post subject: Re: reflectors vs diffusers which are better for portraits? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Alan Browne <alan.browne RemoveThis @FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message news:<AqQpd.28707$i_4.1171792@weber.videotron.net>...
 > Uranium Committee wrote:
 >
 >
  > >
  > > I am absolutely awestruck by your complete imbecility.
 >
 >
 > We take your imbecility as a matter of course, Mikey.

What do you say to someone who thinks you can 'take the brightness'
out of light? 'Goodbye, moron!'<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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