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External
Since: Nov 23, 2004
Posts: 10
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:01 pm
Post subject: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S?
Archived from groups: rec>photo>digital (more info?)
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I've been given the task of purchasing a "better" quality digital camera
for our dept. "Better" is a relative term, but our current model is an
older Epson 850Z if that helps.
The models I am considering so far are the Nikon D100 or D70, the
coolpix 8800, the Pentax *istDS, or the Sony DSCF828. Personally I'm
leaning towards one of the SLR's, and since I already own a slew of
Pentax SLR's I have a bias that direction. Having said that from what I
have read so far the Nikon models are looking pretty good, and I have to
keep in mind that others besides myself will be using this camera as
well so I was thinking the simplicity of a point & shoot may be the
best solution. However, like my MZ-7 pentax in full auto mode, I'm sure
the digital SLR offerings are similar and they are more or less point &
shoot's in any case, but since I am the de-facto photog of the group I
want a lot of control over the camera for things like depth of field,
exposure etc.. without having to jump through a dozen hoops.
I am still not 100% comfortable in the digital realm here, and I am
trying out a Minolta Dimage 7i to get a feel for it. After reading the
manual and seeing how you set exposures, DOF, etc. on this unit I was in
a fog (it was late however:-) I like controlling these things by just
picking a shutter speed on a dial and adjusting the exposure
accordingly, without having to press button x while holding button y
down and turning dial z to the right etc..
Talking to the others in the group, the most common single feature they
want is that the camera takes the picture when the shutter is pressed,
not 1-2 or 3 seconds later when the camera desides the time is right.
This is important to me as well as I like to take a lot of sports pic's
and to date have found the digital P&S's far from adequate, although I
have heard that the higher end ones are better in this regard.
So, to all those with a lot more experience than I in this area, for the
best quality shots and easiest manual controls, and still have the
ability to be a good "dumbed down" point & shoot, and the least "shutter
to picture" lag should I go SLR or high end P&S?
tia |
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External
Since: Oct 23, 2004
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:01 pm
Post subject: Re: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>I've been given the task of purchasing a
>"better" quality digital camera for our dept.
Dept? If you're purchasing a camera to be used by a commercial endeavor
(as opposed to being used by consumers), then get one of professional
quality. No disrespect intended, but the task of purchasing a camera
should not have been given to someone who does not know the guidelines
for purchasing a camera.
It's better for you if your boss thinks "Wow, the camera Glen bought
takes great pictures" than for him to think "He wasted our money on
another piece of crap."
A "better" camera intended for "departmental use" should not only take
comparatively better pictures than the one it is replacing. It should
be able to stand up to the abuse of being handled by many people who are
most likely not going to treat it as tenderly as they would treat their
own personal property.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Dec 14, 2004
Posts: 93
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:01 pm
Post subject: Re: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> I've been given the task of purchasing a "better" quality digital camera
> for our dept. "Better" is a relative term, but our current model is an
> older Epson 850Z if that helps.
Even with a P&S camera of equivalent resolution, once you see the
high-quality, low-noise images produced from dSLRs (which have much larger
sensors), it'll be tough to go back to using a P&S.
steve<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? |
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External
Since: Jun 28, 2004
Posts: 529
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:01 pm
Post subject: Re: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Glen S wrote:
> I've been given the task of purchasing a "better" quality digital camera
> for our dept.
What are the photography needs for this department? Documenting
construction sites, macros of detailed machinery, interior architectural
documenting? Promotional material? You might need more wide angle for
some of those, you might need a lot of detail or not at all & no need
for the huge files. DSLR's force you to buy a different lens for each
application so a high end digicam is probably more suitable for office
use but some really lack wide angle range.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? |
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External
Since: Jan 21, 2005
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:01 pm
Post subject: Re: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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unStoppable wrote:
> Yep, 2 million pixels is A LOT.
Difference betwean 6MP and 8MP is not as big as you seem to believe.
Everything else being equal 4:3 8MP will give you the same quality at
10.88 x 8.16 print size as 3:2 6MP will at 10.02 x 6.67 (print at 300
DPI, one input pixel = one output pixel). But everything else is not
equal, DSLRs have at least 2 times larger sensors, and a lot better
optics.
> You can't go against numbers (numbers
> are objective unlike opinions), no matter how many more bells and
> whistles D70 has.
Ok let's talk numbers. F828 has a tiny 8.8 x 6.6 mm sensor, that makes
very noisy pictures at anything but the lowest ISO settings. D70 has
23.7 x 15.6 mm sensor, and the fact that it has less MP than F828 makes
the sensor's size even larger per pixel count. Put some quality glass
on D70 and it'll mop the floor with any point and shoot camera as far
as picture quality goes.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? |
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External
Since: Jan 14, 2005
Posts: 310
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:21 pm
Post subject: Re: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Glen S <whoknows.RemoveThis@no_spam.com> wrote in news:PH9Id.133624$KO5.8652@clgrps13:
> best quality shots and easiest manual controls, and still have the
> ability to be a good "dumbed down" point & shoot, and the least "shutter
> to picture" lag should I go SLR or high end P&S?
>
>
SLR.
"dumbed down" menas it can pick the exposure and focus. The SLR can handle
these tasks.
The manual controls are even more obtuse on the P&S than the SLR,
especially the manual focus options on most P&S, which require menu
navigation.
Shutter lag: SLR is the clear winner.
The areas where the P&S has an advantage are areas you did not mention:
Price, portability, and, to some extent, versatility (movie mode, VR/IS,
bigger zoom factors, night mode, etc.)
Bob<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? |
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External
Since: Jun 06, 2004
Posts: 42
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:49 pm
Post subject: Re: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Glen S <whoknows RemoveThis @no_spam.com> wrote:
: So, to all those with a lot more experience than I in this area, for the
: best quality shots and easiest manual controls, and still have the
: ability to be a good "dumbed down" point & shoot, and the least "shutter
: to picture" lag should I go SLR or high end P&S?
P&S cameras are toys. They have the big advantage of being smaller and less
expensive (with a smaller sensor than DSLRs). Aside from the compact and convenient
nature of them (long zooms, small sizes, etc), they have very little photographic
benefit over an SLR. One possible exception is repositioning the LCD screen while
taking the picture (think self-portrait here). A DSLR doesn't show an image on the
LCD until the shot is taken.
--
*************************************************************************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
*************************************************************************<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? |
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External
Since: Jan 21, 2005
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:49 pm
Post subject: Re: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Developwebsites wrote:
> >A DSLR doesn't show an image on the
> >LCD until the shot is taken.
>
> huh? you are kidding me?
> you mean I cant view the scene thru the LCD on a DSLR and I have to
use the
> tiny eye viewer?
> Aint good for people with bad vision.
I don't know if you ever used a DSLR or not, but viewfinders on DSLRs
are light years away compared to those found on point and shoot
cameras.
Point and shooters often have a tiny low resolution LCD inside the
viewfinder that I find pain in the ass to look at when composing,
whereas when you're using DSLR you are viewing the actual light that
comes through the lens, that's being reflected from the pentaprism
mirror.
Many consider viewfinder to be one of DSLRs stronger points when
compared to point and shoot cameras, because the image never freezes,
jumps or lags since it's live.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? |
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External
Since: Dec 20, 2004
Posts: 41
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:18 pm
Post subject: Re: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Glen S" <whoknows.DeleteThis@no_spam.com> wrote in message
news:PH9Id.133624$KO5.8652@clgrps13...
> and I have to keep in mind that others besides myself will be using this
> camera as well so I was thinking the simplicity of a point & shoot may be
> the best solution.
You need two cameras. Maybe buy a nice little P&S model for about $200 on
ebay and then buy your DSLR. May I suggest a Olympus D-40 or 4040 if you
need more options?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? |
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External
Since: Jun 25, 2004
Posts: 541
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:18 pm
Post subject: Re: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dave R knows who wrote:
> "Glen S" <whoknows.RemoveThis@no_spam.com> wrote in message
> news:PH9Id.133624$KO5.8652@clgrps13...
>> and I have to keep in mind that others besides myself will be using
>> this camera as well so I was thinking the simplicity of a point &
>> shoot may be the best solution.
>
> You need two cameras. Maybe buy a nice little P&S model for about
> $200 on ebay and then buy your DSLR. May I suggest a Olympus D-40 or
> 4040 if you need more options?
Dave R knows may be right. Horses for courses, you know.
You may want to factor in this observation, gleaned from my recent
experience in transforming from long-time upper-end P&S user (Nikon CP
5000, 5700, 8700) to dSLR lover (Canon 20D):
Because of their many automatic features, any of the parenthesized
cameras is easy to take pretty good pictures with. It is infinitely
easier to take much better pictures with the dSLR.
It seems to me now that getting better product out of the earlier
cameras was a struggle: you had to fight the developers plans to get to
the instrument's capabilities.
Getting improved product out of dSLRs seems to me to be a matter of
giving the machine permission to do what it can do. The controls are
much more easily manipulated, the capabilities much more accessible.
--
Frank ess
Forecasting is difficult. Particularly about the Future.
—Deepak Gupta<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? |
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External
Since: Jun 02, 2004
Posts: 1309
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:21 pm
Post subject: Re: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Glen S <whoknows RemoveThis @no_spam.com> writes:
> I've been given the task of purchasing a "better" quality digital
> camera for our dept. "Better" is a relative term, but our current
> model is an older Epson 850Z if that helps.
Ah, so *you're* the other person in the universe who bought one of
those! (Still have it, but now my wife is using it as a snapshot
camera).
> The models I am considering so far are the Nikon D100 or D70, the
> coolpix 8800, the Pentax *istDS, or the Sony DSCF828. Personally I'm
> leaning towards one of the SLR's, and since I already own a slew of
> Pentax SLR's I have a bias that direction. Having said that from what
> I have read so far the Nikon models are looking pretty good, and I
> have to keep in mind that others besides myself will be using this
> camera as well so I was thinking the simplicity of a point & shoot may
> be the best solution. However, like my MZ-7 pentax in full auto mode,
> I'm sure the digital SLR offerings are similar and they are more or
> less point & shoot's in any case, but since I am the de-facto photog
> of the group I want a lot of control over the camera for things like
> depth of field, exposure etc.. without having to jump through a dozen
> hoops.
You don't say much about the uses that will be made of the camera, and
how the other users might feel. But generally the DSLR is a LOT more
flexible, and a lot heavier and a lot more expensive (especially if
you start buying a lot of lenses, too). In program mode it's no
harder to use, though; and people who know anything can use it other
ways.
Personally I chose the Fuji S2 over the D100; the D70 wasn't available
when I did it.
If you're seeing multiple seconds of "shutter lag", then you're not
pre-focusing. And you may see multiple seconds including focus time
even with one of the DSLRs depending on lighting, lens, and camera.
So you should all learn to pre-focus when there's a timing issue.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? |
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External
Since: Sep 19, 2004
Posts: 135
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:27 pm
Post subject: Re: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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You really don't say what your "department" needs the camera to do.
You may not need a camera of the complexity of either the 828 or the D70.
These cameras can be used in P&S mode but why spend that much money when
true P&S cameras will yield images that may be adequate for your use.
As one who owns and uses a Sony828 and a NikonD70 I think I understand the
differences between these two better than most people who post here.
The 828 has shutter lag but on fully automatic produces better jpeg images
out of the camera, images that require less adjustment in Photoshop, than
the D70. You have to learn the menus and accomodate to the electronic
viewfinder however. The 828 is far too slow for general use in its RAW mode.
It may be heresy on this group to say it but the color accuracy and detail
of images coming out of the 828 unmanpiulated are actually better than the
D70: the 2 million pixels really do make a difference.
The D70 handles like an SLR. In my opinion the default jpeg settings on this
camera render images that are essentially worthless (no better than average
P&S quality) but if you are willing to learn how to process RAW files the
D70 becomes an awesome camera. The D70 has a bewildering array of electronic
menu options that you have to learn to use to get quality images out of the
camera.
I think that Kodak produces a line of digital cameras that yield images that
require vey little post camera processing for most people's uses, but Kodak
squandered their brand name with all the low end cameras they cranked out
over the years. You might want to look into them if you need a camera with
good automatic settings that non-photographers can use. >> Stay informed about: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? |
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External
Since: Nov 23, 2004
Posts: 10
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:28 pm
Post subject: Re: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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papenfussDIESPAM.RemoveThis@juneauDOTmeDOTvt.edu wrote:
> Glen S <whoknows.RemoveThis@no_spam.com> wrote:
> : So, to all those with a lot more experience than I in this area, for the
> : best quality shots and easiest manual controls, and still have the
> : ability to be a good "dumbed down" point & shoot, and the least "shutter
> : to picture" lag should I go SLR or high end P&S?
>
> P&S cameras are toys. They have the big advantage of being smaller and less
> expensive (with a smaller sensor than DSLRs). Aside from the compact and convenient
> nature of them (long zooms, small sizes, etc), they have very little photographic
> benefit over an SLR. One possible exception is repositioning the LCD screen while
> taking the picture (think self-portrait here). A DSLR doesn't show an image on the
> LCD until the shot is taken.
>
>
Well, the P&S's I was looking at are only marginally less expensive, and
some of the "goodies" they offer are appealing to some in our group,
mainly the ability to shoot small amounts of video, time lapse etc.. (I
find these kinda cool too)
I am leaning towards DSLR's though, and shutter lag will likely be the
deciding factor here. My next step will be to stop by one of the better
camera shops next trip to the city and do some serious hands on
looking/testing and find a knowledgeable salesperson experienced in both
types of photography (digital and film)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? |
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External
Since: Nov 23, 2004
Posts: 10
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:49 pm
Post subject: Re: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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bmoag wrote:
> You really don't say what your "department" needs the camera to do.
> You may not need a camera of the complexity of either the 828 or the D70.
> These cameras can be used in P&S mode but why spend that much money when
> true P&S cameras will yield images that may be adequate for your use.
> As one who owns and uses a Sony828 and a NikonD70 I think I understand the
> differences between these two better than most people who post here.
> The 828 has shutter lag but on fully automatic produces better jpeg images
> out of the camera, images that require less adjustment in Photoshop, than
> the D70. You have to learn the menus and accomodate to the electronic
> viewfinder however. The 828 is far too slow for general use in its RAW mode.
> It may be heresy on this group to say it but the color accuracy and detail
> of images coming out of the 828 unmanpiulated are actually better than the
> D70: the 2 million pixels really do make a difference.
> The D70 handles like an SLR. In my opinion the default jpeg settings on this
> camera render images that are essentially worthless (no better than average
> P&S quality) but if you are willing to learn how to process RAW files the
> D70 becomes an awesome camera. The D70 has a bewildering array of electronic
> menu options that you have to learn to use to get quality images out of the
> camera.
> I think that Kodak produces a line of digital cameras that yield images that
> require vey little post camera processing for most people's uses, but Kodak
> squandered their brand name with all the low end cameras they cranked out
> over the years. You might want to look into them if you need a camera with
> good automatic settings that non-photographers can use.
>
>
In a nutshell we need a camera that will suffice for taking *good*
pictures at work related events etc... and is not to hard to use, and
being the main photog of the group I also want something that will give
me lab quality prints and not be limited to taking pictures of
relatively "still" subjects, as has been my experience with most digital
cameras.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? |
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External
Since: Oct 09, 2004
Posts: 48
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:01 pm
Post subject: Re: purchasing a higher end digital - SLR or P&S? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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