A printer suggestion for the OEM's

On Dec 14, 4:17 pm, Paul Furman wrote:
>
> Wrap it into a 2-page pdf, if that can handle color space, etc. I don't
> know if any photo inkjets can flip paper around like that though.
>
> > Tony
> > MS MVP Printing Image

Canons support auto-duplex on many of their models. ip4000 and higher
without a doubt, with some older models in the ip3xxx that did, but
current ones do not.

They make it a selling point that you can buy double sized paper, and
AFAIK their "EZ photo print" software will handle this. The downside
is one would ideally want pigmented ink for the text data. I've not
looked at duplex output from a hex viewer, but Canons are documented
oriented printers.

Some HPs had the option for duplex units.

This is a software problem. One would have to make photo print
software that will handle this, but there is a drawback to shoving
your photos twice through a printer. On my Epson I'd fear the pizza
wheels.
 >> Stay informed about: A printer suggestion for the OEM's 

IntergalacticExpandingPanda wrote:
> On Dec 14, 4:17 pm, Paul Furman wrote:
>> Wrap it into a 2-page pdf, if that can handle color space, etc. I don't
>> know if any photo inkjets can flip paper around like that though.
>>
>>> Tony
>>> MS MVP Printing Image
>
> Canons support auto-duplex on many of their models. ip4000 and higher
> without a doubt, with some older models in the ip3xxx that did, but
> current ones do not.
>
> They make it a selling point that you can buy double sized paper, and
> AFAIK their "EZ photo print" software will handle this. The downside
> is one would ideally want pigmented ink for the text data. I've not
> looked at duplex output from a hex viewer, but Canons are documented
> oriented printers.
>
> Some HPs had the option for duplex units.
>
> This is a software problem. One would have to make photo print
> software that will handle this, but there is a drawback to shoving
> your photos twice through a printer. On my Epson I'd fear the pizza
> wheels.

The heavy 300gpsm 'watercolor' paper I described in another reply worked
fine on both sides as long as the final print isn't fed through again
(print the text on the back first). Another reason to do adhesive labels
I guess...

--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

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 >> Stay informed about: A printer suggestion for the OEM's 

Paul Furman wrote:
> Alan Browne wrote:
>>
>> It would be very, very nice if photo printers would print data on the
>> back of photos with whatever info the photographer likes in plain B&W
>> at the same time that they print the photo on the otherside. eg:
>> Selected EXIF data, comments, copyright and so on.
>>
>> I don't want to run the photo paper through a printer as I think the
>> photo side might get marred (pre or post photo print).
>>
>> When I get lab prints they usually have data printed on the back
>> (date, tint/color offsets, frame number...)
>
> Yeah that would be nice though some papers are only printable on one
> side.

As photos. But the back would only be printed with some data.

> You would need a whole separate printer on the bottom so I guess

This is pretty cheap these days. For a $100 printer, maybe too much.
For a $1400 printer (or even a $400 printer) it would be noise in the
price. Again, one color, simple text.

> the practical workaround is to just print it on the margin & waste a
> little paper. AutoCAD drafting software has various ways of inserting a
> timestamp on the margin or title block which usually includes the file
> name and path/location.

Kinda ruins presentation, however. The back of a photo is a place to
document the image as described.

> If I'm organized, I'll hand write that on the back with a sharpie water
> proof pen but I wonder if that ink can bleed on a stack of prints or
> through the paper. I'm not usually that organized and when I come back a
> year later it can take a while to figure out where the image file is for
> a given print.

I wouldn't use a sharpie on a photo for the bleed reason. I could see
my way to applying a sticker or using a pencil, lightly.

> It would be theoretically possible to automate the exif & path somehow
> and print that on an adhesive label but still a hassle.

Yep. Hence the idea of a back printer...

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Alan Browne wrote:
>
>
> It would be very, very nice if photo printers would print data on the
> back of photos with whatever info the photographer likes in plain B&W at
> the same time that they print the photo on the otherside. eg: Selected
> EXIF data, comments, copyright and so on.
>
> I don't want to run the photo paper through a printer as I think the
> photo side might get marred (pre or post photo print).
>
> When I get lab prints they usually have data printed on the back (date,
> tint/color offsets, frame number...)
>
Many of the photo-papers have a synthetic back that's not receptive to
inkjet inks - it just wipes off (or worse - would tranfer to the top of
the next print in a stack) But I agree - it would be handy to have.
 >> Stay informed about: A printer suggestion for the OEM's 

Me wrote:
> Alan Browne wrote:
>>
>>
>> It would be very, very nice if photo printers would print data on the
>> back of photos with whatever info the photographer likes in plain B&W
>> at the same time that they print the photo on the otherside. eg:
>> Selected EXIF data, comments, copyright and so on.
>>
>> I don't want to run the photo paper through a printer as I think the
>> photo side might get marred (pre or post photo print).
>>
>> When I get lab prints they usually have data printed on the back
>> (date, tint/color offsets, frame number...)
>>
> Many of the photo-papers have a synthetic back that's not receptive to
> inkjet inks - it just wipes off (or worse - would tranfer to the top of
> the next print in a stack) But I agree - it would be handy to have.

I'm sure the fine photo paper folks would be pleased to oblige with a
text printable surface on their papers...

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
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 >> Stay informed about: A printer suggestion for the OEM's 

Alan Browne wrote:
> Me wrote:
>> Alan Browne wrote:
>>>
>>> It would be very, very nice if photo printers would print data on the
>>> back of photos with whatever info the photographer likes in plain B&W
>>> at the same time that they print the photo on the otherside. eg:
>>> Selected EXIF data, comments, copyright and so on.
>>>
>>> I don't want to run the photo paper through a printer as I think the
>>> photo side might get marred (pre or post photo print).
>>>
>>> When I get lab prints they usually have data printed on the back
>>> (date, tint/color offsets, frame number...)
>>>
>> Many of the photo-papers have a synthetic back that's not receptive to
>> inkjet inks - it just wipes off (or worse - would tranfer to the top
>> of the next print in a stack) But I agree - it would be handy to have.
>
> I'm sure the fine photo paper folks would be pleased to oblige with a
> text printable surface on their papers...

One of my favorite papers was a MOAB 'fine art watercolor' which can be
printed on both sides because there is no special coating. It doesn't
get the fine details like a glossy paper but the colors can be more
saturated, blacks more black and large prints don't need super fine
detail. Unfortunately they discontinued that and only have a 'rag' with
a texture on one side <argh>, anyways with no coating, there's nothing
to scratch by feeding it through again upside down. Most of the 'matte'
papers are like this, I just liked the feel of that one and the gamut.

For glossy paper where the back doesn't print, if you don't trust a
sharpie not to bleed, I guess it comes down to using adhesive labels.
Hand scribbling isn't that hard and it would be more convenient to write
on the label as the print comes out then stick it on. I don't know what
ink or pencil is most safe to use on that.

Here's a $100 label printer:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=label+printer&cid=14919...6595178
exiftool can be used to extract select exif data, I have a batch file to
create little text files with matching names like _DSC03289.txt for web
use and could modify it to add the file name & path. The path includes a
folder name with date and location/description. So I could do something
like this:

copyright 2008 Paul Furman www.edgehill.net
NIKON D700 50mm f/1.2 1/125s ISO:200 EC:0
lens:50mm f/1.2 MF No Flash
C:\Users\paul\Desktop\_paul\_Pictures\2008\2008-12-09-window\_0032509.JPG

Theoretically I think the batch file could be set up to run from a
right-click menu and send the text directly to the label printer:
copy _DSC03289.txt LPT1

Or... someone could write a photoshop plugin to do that (not me though).
A photoshop plugin could presumably get annotation from the Adobe Bridge
database.

I could do it with php on my web site so it gathers the info including
any annotation. That's not a bad way to go. A web application could
extract that info from flickr or pbase or wherever. Pulling from a web
page you would get a useful url instead of a nasty DOS file path.


--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

all google groups messages filtered due to spam
 >> Stay informed about: A printer suggestion for the OEM's 

Alan Browne wrote:
>It would be very, very nice if photo printers would print data on the
>back of photos with whatever info the photographer likes in plain B&W at
>the same time that they print the photo on the otherside. eg: Selected
>EXIF data, comments, copyright and so on.
>
>I don't want to run the photo paper through a printer as I think the
>photo side might get marred (pre or post photo print).
>
>When I get lab prints they usually have data printed on the back (date,
>tint/color offsets, frame number...)
>
>--
>-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
>-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
>-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
>-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
>-- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out.

I have never tried it but you may be able to do this with auto duplexing
provided you print the back first so that the photo dries properly. I would be
surprised if some photo printers with a duplexer installed wouldn't do this.
Basically it will depend on the driver since there is no mechanical reason why
a printer with a duplexer would not do what you want especially if the data on
the back is simple and the auro duplexing is set for a reasonable drying time.

Tony
MS MVP Printing Image
 >> Stay informed about: A printer suggestion for the OEM's 

Tony wrote:
> Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> It would be very, very nice if photo printers would print data on the
>> back of photos with whatever info the photographer likes in plain B&W at
>> the same time that they print the photo on the otherside. eg: Selected
>> EXIF data, comments, copyright and so on.
>>
>> I don't want to run the photo paper through a printer as I think the
>> photo side might get marred (pre or post photo print).
>>
>> When I get lab prints they usually have data printed on the back (date,
>> tint/color offsets, frame number...)
>
> I have never tried it but you may be able to do this with auto duplexing
> provided you print the back first so that the photo dries properly. I would be
> surprised if some photo printers with a duplexer installed wouldn't do this.
> Basically it will depend on the driver since there is no mechanical reason why
> a printer with a duplexer would not do what you want especially if the data on
> the back is simple and the auro duplexing is set for a reasonable drying time.

Wrap it into a 2-page pdf, if that can handle color space, etc. I don't
know if any photo inkjets can flip paper around like that though.


> Tony
> MS MVP Printing Image

--
Paul Furman
www.edgehill.net
www.baynatives.com

all google groups messages filtered due to spam
 >> Stay informed about: A printer suggestion for the OEM's 

> I don't want to run the photo paper through a printer as I think the
> photo side might get marred (pre or post photo print).
>
> When I get lab prints they usually have data printed on the back (date,
> tint/color offsets, frame number...)

Alan

I have a small label for each print that I make. I fill in the folder
and file number while it is printing. I can get any data by opening
the file that contains all the data plus the image.

One could also set things up to print the data on tha face of the
print on the widest border. Borderless prints excepted.

Bob AZ
 >> Stay informed about: A printer suggestion for the OEM's 

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:09:36 -0800, Paul Furman wrote:

> Yeah that would be nice though some papers are only printable on one
> side.

I tried that several years ago with one of HP's duplex printers.
The photos printed nicely but the data on the other side smeared no
matter how many weeks they were allowed to dry. I was unable to
find any readily available photo paper that allowed printing on the
reverse side other than one from HP. Unfortunately, that one was
designed to have photos printed on both sides.
 >> Stay informed about: A printer suggestion for the OEM's 

Me wrote:
> Alan Browne wrote:
>>
>>
>> It would be very, very nice if photo printers would print data on the
>> back of photos with whatever info the photographer likes in plain B&W
>> at the same time that they print the photo on the otherside. eg:
>> Selected EXIF data, comments, copyright and so on.
>>
>> I don't want to run the photo paper through a printer as I think the
>> photo side might get marred (pre or post photo print).
>>
>> When I get lab prints they usually have data printed on the back
>> (date, tint/color offsets, frame number...)
>>
> Many of the photo-papers have a synthetic back that's not receptive to
> inkjet inks - it just wipes off (or worse - would tranfer to the top of
> the next print in a stack) But I agree - it would be handy to have.

I'm sure the fine photo paper folks would be pleased to oblige with a
text printable surface on their papers...

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
-- usenet posts from gmail.com and googlemail.com are filtered out.
 >> Stay informed about: A printer suggestion for the OEM's 

"Alan Browne" wrote in message

> Paul Furman wrote:
>> Alan Browne wrote:
>>>
>>> It would be very, very nice if photo printers would print data on the
>>> back of photos with whatever info the photographer likes in plain B&W at
>>> the same time that they print the photo on the otherside. eg: Selected
>>> EXIF data, comments, copyright and so on.
>>>
>>> I don't want to run the photo paper through a printer as I think the
>>> photo side might get marred (pre or post photo print).
>>>
>>> When I get lab prints they usually have data printed on the back (date,
>>> tint/color offsets, frame number...)
>>
>> Yeah that would be nice though some papers are only printable on one
>> side.
>
> As photos. But the back would only be printed with some data.
>

But IME, ink isn't absorbed onto the back of photo paper, so it either
'beads', or simply rubs off.
 >> Stay informed about: A printer suggestion for the OEM's 

Although it is probably doable, it would be a bit tricky mechanically.
It could probably be done by lengthening the carriage and having the
reverse black only head on one edge of the carriage in an area not
available for printing of the other side.

Some papers really can't be printed on the reverse side because they are
coated with a plastic that doesn't absorb any ink, so it remains wet
nearly indefinitely.

If the paper is receptive to print on the back, bleed through could
still be a problem, although they could probably use a light "black"
(gray) ink.

Interesting idea. Like you suggested, best for higher end products.

The other approach might be a specialty paper which is treated for rear
printing and using another printing technology that doesn't involve the
complexity of inkjet heads. Something like the Lightscribe CDs and DVDs
using a light source of a heat source to write on a light/heat sensitive
surface on the back.


Art


If you are interested in issues surrounding e-waste,
I invite you to enter the discussion at my blog:

http://e-trashtalk.spaces.live.com/

Alan Browne wrote:
> Paul Furman wrote:
>> Alan Browne wrote:
>>>
>>> It would be very, very nice if photo printers would print data on the
>>> back of photos with whatever info the photographer likes in plain B&W
>>> at the same time that they print the photo on the otherside. eg:
>>> Selected EXIF data, comments, copyright and so on.
>>>
>>> I don't want to run the photo paper through a printer as I think the
>>> photo side might get marred (pre or post photo print).
>>>
>>> When I get lab prints they usually have data printed on the back
>>> (date, tint/color offsets, frame number...)
>>
>> Yeah that would be nice though some papers are only printable on one
>> side.
>
> As photos. But the back would only be printed with some data.
>
>> You would need a whole separate printer on the bottom so I guess
>
> This is pretty cheap these days. For a $100 printer, maybe too much.
> For a $1400 printer (or even a $400 printer) it would be noise in the
> price. Again, one color, simple text.
>
>> the practical workaround is to just print it on the margin & waste a
>> little paper. AutoCAD drafting software has various ways of inserting
>> a timestamp on the margin or title block which usually includes the
>> file name and path/location.
>
> Kinda ruins presentation, however. The back of a photo is a place to
> document the image as described.
>
>> If I'm organized, I'll hand write that on the back with a sharpie
>> water proof pen but I wonder if that ink can bleed on a stack of
>> prints or through the paper. I'm not usually that organized and when I
>> come back a year later it can take a while to figure out where the
>> image file is for a given print.
>
> I wouldn't use a sharpie on a photo for the bleed reason. I could see
> my way to applying a sticker or using a pencil, lightly.
>
>> It would be theoretically possible to automate the exif & path somehow
>> and print that on an adhesive label but still a hassle.
>
> Yep. Hence the idea of a back printer...
>
 >> Stay informed about: A printer suggestion for the OEM's