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External
Since: Sep 08, 2003
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 7:58 am
Post subject: B&W photography and filter technique
Archived from groups: rec>photo>technique>nature (more info?)
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Hello
I have a decent-ish camera (Dynax/Maxxum 5xi) but have never really
used it out of AF mode.
I now fancy experimenting with B&W photos and especially like high
contrast landscapes and portraits. I know that a red filter would be
the weapon of choice and that it would introduce a 3 stop shift, but
how do i compensate for this (or do I need to?)
Do I overexpose by 3 stops or slow the speed - is there a preferred
option?
What would happen if I didn't compensate at all and left the camera in
AF mode?
I know the answer is to experiment for myself, but i would like to get
a bit of a head start so as not to waste rolls of film!
Apologies for the lack of tech speak, but i am new to this - ask me
one on snowboarding instead!
Cheers
Steve |
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External
Since: Feb 29, 2004
Posts: 128
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:04 pm
Post subject: Re: B&W photography and filter technique [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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The meter will compensate for you. I never use exposure compensation
numbers, I meter through the filters. When using a hand held meter I
simply hold the filter to the filter and take a reading.If you want to
compensate you need to add more light right? The dark filter cuts down on
the amount of light. So you need to over expose. You can do this either
with aperture, or shutter speed or both. But my suggestion is to place it
on the camera and meter that way. Go to a local library and look at Ansel
Adams series on photography: "The camera, "the negative" and " The print".
One (don't remember which right now) has an excellent discussion of
filters. And these are pretty common books that most libraries will have.
Good Luck
Stan
Visual Arts Photography
PS for REAL deep blues use a polarizer along with a red filter. The effect
is great.
Steve wrote:
> Hello
>
> I have a decent-ish camera (Dynax/Maxxum 5xi) but have never really
> used it out of AF mode.
> I now fancy experimenting with B&W photos and especially like high
> contrast landscapes and portraits. I know that a red filter would be
> the weapon of choice and that it would introduce a 3 stop shift, but
> how do i compensate for this (or do I need to?)
> Do I overexpose by 3 stops or slow the speed - is there a preferred
> option?
> What would happen if I didn't compensate at all and left the camera in
> AF mode?
> I know the answer is to experiment for myself, but i would like to get
> a bit of a head start so as not to waste rolls of film!
>
> Apologies for the lack of tech speak, but i am new to this - ask me
> one on snowboarding instead!
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Oct 16, 2004
Posts: 21
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:40 pm
Post subject: Re: B&W photography and filter technique [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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You said AF mode. This means auto focus mode. It doesn't seem to fit
with your question?? Do you mean AE mode (auto exposure mode)?
As you said when using a red filter there is a loss of 3 stops of
light. However, the 5xi uses TTL (through the lens) metering. That
means that the camera meter see's the lighting that makes it through
the filter. So the meter measures the reduced light and will give you
the correct exposure. You can use any of the exposure modes of the
camera (P, A, S, M). The TTL flash metering will also automatically
compensate for filters.
You only need to be concerned about the 3-stop loss of light if you
use a separate meter.
Tom
stephen.morrow.RemoveThis@komatsu-uk.com (Steve) wrote in message news:<e1882fc5.0307070358.4cbf4e8c.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>...
> Hello
>
> I have a decent-ish camera (Dynax/Maxxum 5xi) but have never really
> used it out of AF mode.
> I now fancy experimenting with B&W photos and especially like high
> contrast landscapes and portraits. I know that a red filter would be
> the weapon of choice and that it would introduce a 3 stop shift, but
> how do i compensate for this (or do I need to?)
> Do I overexpose by 3 stops or slow the speed - is there a preferred
> option?
> What would happen if I didn't compensate at all and left the camera in
> AF mode?
> I know the answer is to experiment for myself, but i would like to get
> a bit of a head start so as not to waste rolls of film!
>
> Apologies for the lack of tech speak, but i am new to this - ask me
> one on snowboarding instead!
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: B&W photography and filter technique |
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External
Since: Sep 08, 2003
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 11:42 am
Post subject: Re: B&W photography and filter technique [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Thanks Guys for replying
When I said AF mode, I just meant that I use the camera in fully
automatic at the moment - sorry for any confusion.
So it looks like I can leave the camera in auto and let it do the hard
work for me!
I will probably move into manual at some point to get a better
understanding of the process.
If i were to overexpose would this provide interesting results?
Cheers
Steve >> Stay informed about: B&W photography and filter technique |
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External
Since: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 6:45 pm
Post subject: Re: B&W photography and filter technique [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Well, sorry to disturb your nice full auto talk but for B&W filter you have
to add some extra light beside the automatic measurment.
Set your EV compensation on:
yellow + 0,7 - + 1,0
orange: + 1,3 - +1,5
Red: + 2 -
This is not like cooling/warming filter usage, but obviously people do not
understand that.
If you do not believe me take filter and shoot one film to try it (thats how
I have realised that).
"Steve" <stephen.morrow.TakeThisOut@komatsu-uk.com> wrote in message
news:e1882fc5.0307080742.45807463@posting.google.com...
> Thanks Guys for replying
>
> When I said AF mode, I just meant that I use the camera in fully
> automatic at the moment - sorry for any confusion.
> So it looks like I can leave the camera in auto and let it do the hard
> work for me!
> I will probably move into manual at some point to get a better
> understanding of the process.
> If i were to overexpose would this provide interesting results?
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: B&W photography and filter technique |
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External
Since: Feb 29, 2004
Posts: 128
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:59 pm
Post subject: Re: B&W photography and filter technique [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Metering though a filter will give you the "best" exposure based on the light
available. Using EV compensation is a crap shoot. Some are right on others are
not. If you are letting the camera do the metering simply metering with the
filter on will be all that is needed. If you meter and make an EV adjustment you
will be overexposed by 1 to 3 stops. The same with using a hand held meter.
Meter through the lens and the compensation is automatic and foolproof.
Stan
Visual Arts Photography
"Xm@n" wrote:
> Well, sorry to disturb your nice full auto talk but for B&W filter you have
> to add some extra light beside the automatic measurment.
> Set your EV compensation on:
> yellow + 0,7 - + 1,0
> orange: + 1,3 - +1,5
> Red: + 2 -
>
> This is not like cooling/warming filter usage, but obviously people do not
> understand that.
> If you do not believe me take filter and shoot one film to try it (thats how
> I have realised that).
>
> "Steve" <stephen.morrow.TakeThisOut@komatsu-uk.com> wrote in message
> news:e1882fc5.0307080742.45807463@posting.google.com...
> > Thanks Guys for replying
> >
> > When I said AF mode, I just meant that I use the camera in fully
> > automatic at the moment - sorry for any confusion.
> > So it looks like I can leave the camera in auto and let it do the hard
> > work for me!
> > I will probably move into manual at some point to get a better
> > understanding of the process.
> > If i were to overexpose would this provide interesting results?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Steve<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: B&W photography and filter technique |
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External
Since: Feb 29, 2004
Posts: 128
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:02 am
Post subject: Re: B&W photography and filter technique [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Steve wrote:
> Thanks Guys for replying
>
> When I said AF mode, I just meant that I use the camera in fully
> automatic at the moment - sorry for any confusion.
> So it looks like I can leave the camera in auto and let it do the hard
> work for me!
> I will probably move into manual at some point to get a better
> understanding of the process.
> If i were to overexpose would this provide interesting results?
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve
If you mean overexpose beyond the 1 to 3 stops needed to compensate for
the filters I would say no. On the other hand if you want washed out
photos (and in some fashion applications it is used) then the answer is
yes. But generally the nicest photograph (very subjective) is the one that
is properly exposed, according to your meter. Assuming you are metering
correctly.
Stan
Visual Arts Photography<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: B&W photography and filter technique |
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External
Since: Sep 08, 2003
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 7:13 am
Post subject: Re: B&W photography and filter technique [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 7
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:31 pm
Post subject: Re: B&W photography and filter technique [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"stan" <visarts RemoveThis @mc.net> wrote in message news:3F0CC894.C79C67E2@mc.net...
> Metering though a filter will give you the "best" exposure based on the
light
> available. Using EV compensation is a crap shoot. Some are right on others
are
> not. If you are letting the camera do the metering simply metering with
the
> filter on will be all that is needed. If you meter and make an EV
adjustment you
> will be overexposed by 1 to 3 stops. The same with using a hand held
meter.
> Meter through the lens and the compensation is automatic and foolproof.
> Stan
> Visual Arts Photography
>
This is crap and I am surprised how many people are ready to preach around
and not know what do they talk about.
If there is no Steve who don't know and nicely ask I wouldn't loose my time
on Stan because ignorance is blessing sometimes.
I found the upper value of additional EV compensation by testing and trying.
But there is also a good web page about it so go there and read it, both of
you.
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.acecam.com/magazine/filters-faq.html" target="_blank">http://www.acecam.com/magazine/filters-faq.html</a>
Chapter 8. (they also mentioned a people like Stan (wise guys).
If that is not clearly I give up, shoot as you wish.
Regards,
Rob<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: B&W photography and filter technique |
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External
Since: Feb 29, 2004
Posts: 128
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:32 pm
Post subject: Re: B&W photography and filter technique [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Xm@n" wrote:
> "stan" <visarts.RemoveThis@mc.net> wrote in message news:3F0CC894.C79C67E2@mc.net...
> > Metering though a filter will give you the "best" exposure based on the
> light
> > available. Using EV compensation is a crap shoot. Some are right on others
> are
> > not. If you are letting the camera do the metering simply metering with
> the
> > filter on will be all that is needed. If you meter and make an EV
> adjustment you
> > will be overexposed by 1 to 3 stops. The same with using a hand held
> meter.
> > Meter through the lens and the compensation is automatic and foolproof.
> > Stan
> > Visual Arts Photography
> >
>
> This is crap and I am surprised how many people are ready to preach around
> and not know what do they talk about.
> If there is no Steve who don't know and nicely ask I wouldn't loose my time
> on Stan because ignorance is blessing sometimes.
>
> I found the upper value of additional EV compensation by testing and trying.
> But there is also a good web page about it so go there and read it, both of
> you.
>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.acecam.com/magazine/filters-faq.html</font" target="_blank">http://www.acecam.com/magazine/filters-faq.html</font</a>>
>
> Chapter 8. (they also mentioned a people like Stan (wise guys).
>
> If that is not clearly I give up, shoot as you wish.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rob
Rob, Hold your pants on man!! Geezzz! If it works for you then use it. I've been
a pro for a long time. My experience is not to use EV but meter through the
filter. If that is reprehensible in your eyes don't do it. This technique is the
one Ansel Adams used. It works.Besieds you can't adjust a large format camera.
It doesn't have EV adjustments. This technique works well with 4x5 chromes or
35mm Velvia. Name calling won't get you anywhere. And I'm not trying to be a
(wise guy).
Stan
Visual Arts Photography<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: B&W photography and filter technique |
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External
Since: Feb 29, 2004
Posts: 128
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:33 pm
Post subject: Re: B&W photography and filter technique [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Personally I thing HP5 is one of the best films around. My opinion only
of course. I have yet to shoot a roll of SFX but have done tons of IR.
I'll have to give it a try soon though. Good Luck.
Stan
Visual Arts Photography
Steve wrote:
> Thanks Stan
>
> I'll give it a go.
> Ever used Ilford SFX?
> I'll be using HP5+ initially.
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: B&W photography and filter technique |
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External
Since: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 2:13 pm
Post subject: Re: B&W photography and filter technique [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Hi,
I;m new here and I use a TLR sometimes with filters that don't have the
compensation number on them, so I usually compensate 1 stop, but I'd
like to know what are the real compensations for each colour of filter
on B&W photo.
Thanks,
Marcelo
stan wrote:
> Personally I thing HP5 is one of the best films around. My opinion only
> of course. I have yet to shoot a roll of SFX but have done tons of IR.
> I'll have to give it a try soon though. Good Luck.
> Stan
> Visual Arts Photography
>
> Steve wrote:
>
>
>>Thanks Stan
>>
>>I'll give it a go.
>>Ever used Ilford SFX?
>>I'll be using HP5+ initially.
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Steve
>
><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: B&W photography and filter technique |
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