a question of B/W film

AArDvarK <noway.TakeThisOut@yourprob.com> wrote:
 >
 > There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
 > which was not sensitive to red light,

Orthochromatic (sensitive to everything but red) and
Colour-blind (sensitive to blue and violet) films
are like that. Colour blind materials can be used under the
same safelights as paper. Some orthochromatic films can
be used under a Kodak series 1A safelight, but others require
the darker Kodak series 2.

Ilford makes an orthochromatic film in sheet sizes called Ilford Ortho.
It is similar to FP4 except that it isn't sensitive to red.

Macophot markets two types of othochromatic film:
PO-100 which is a pictoral contrast film and
ORT-25 which is sort of like an ortho version of Tech Pan.
These are available in 120 as well as 35mm and sheet sizes.

Kodak makes a slow colour-blind film called 5302 fine grain
release positive in cine film sizes. If is designed for making
B&W movie prints, but could be used in camera it has an EI of
around 6 to sunlight.

Peter.
--
pirwin.TakeThisOut@ktb.net

 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: a question of B/W film 

"Michael Weinstein" <drmike99.DeleteThis@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:2004031607015116807%drmike99@ixnetcomcom...
 > On 2004-03-16 03:31:45 -0500, "AArDvarK" <noway.DeleteThis@yourprob.com> said:
 >
  > >
  > > There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
  > > which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
  > > in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
  > > something I think ... anyone remember this? Does anyone
  > > know if something close is still made? I know some
  > > of Ansel's earliest work was done with it.
  > >
  > > Thanks all,
  > >
  > > Alex
 >
 > Not "pan" something. The OPPOSITE of "pan" something. Pan is short for
 > Panchromatic, meaning sensitive to all colors, the standard for B&W
 > films since the 1950's. You are referring to ORTHOCHROMATIC film which
 > was red-blind and can be developed by a red safelight. Why on earth
 > would anyone want it now?

Some was certainly made until very recently for use in document copying.
Slow and fine grained, very high contrast, and because it was insensitive to
red it tended to produce a good even black text on white paper print even if
the paper of the original document was unevenly yellowed or had 'foxing' on
it.

Could be a fun film to play with - I used to like AgfaOrtho 25, but I
haven't seen it on sale for a long time.


Peter<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: a question of B/W film 

Try Kodak Publication F-5, 'KODAK PROFESSIONAL Black-and-White Films' for
all the info on Ortho you could ever want. There are a bunch of them in
there. If you can't find the pub, I'll gladly photocopy a few spec pages
and mail them to you.

FYI the following films are listed as orthochromatic (pub date 1998):

KODAK PROFESSIONAL Commercial Film/4127
KODAK PROFESSIONAL Contrast Process Ortho Film/4154
KODAK PROFESSIONAL KODALITH Ortho Film, Type 3/2556 and 6556
KODAK PROFESSIONAL Copy Film/4125
KODAK PROFESSIONAL B/W Duplicating Film SO-132



On Wed, 17 Mar 2004, Bandicoot wrote:

 > Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 04:20:43 -0000
 > From: Bandicoot <insert_handle_here.TakeThisOut@techemail.com>
 > Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format
 > Subject: Re: a question of B/W film
 >
 > "Michael Weinstein" <drmike99.TakeThisOut@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
 > news:2004031607015116807%drmike99@ixnetcomcom...
  > > On 2004-03-16 03:31:45 -0500, "AArDvarK" <noway.TakeThisOut@yourprob.com> said:
  > >
   > > >
   > > > There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
   > > > which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
   > > > in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
   > > > something I think ... anyone remember this? Does anyone
   > > > know if something close is still made? I know some
   > > > of Ansel's earliest work was done with it.
   > > >
   > > > Thanks all,
   > > >
   > > > Alex
  > >
  > > Not "pan" something. The OPPOSITE of "pan" something. Pan is short for
  > > Panchromatic, meaning sensitive to all colors, the standard for B&W
  > > films since the 1950's. You are referring to ORTHOCHROMATIC film which
  > > was red-blind and can be developed by a red safelight. Why on earth
  > > would anyone want it now?
 >
 > Some was certainly made until very recently for use in document copying.
 > Slow and fine grained, very high contrast, and because it was insensitive to
 > red it tended to produce a good even black text on white paper print even if
 > the paper of the original document was unevenly yellowed or had 'foxing' on
 > it.
 >
 > Could be a fun film to play with - I used to like AgfaOrtho 25, but I
 > haven't seen it on sale for a long time.
 >
 >
 > Peter
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: a question of B/W film 

"AArDvarK" <noway.DeleteThis@yourprob.com> wrote in message news:<NXy5c.17191$Nj.3215@fed1read01>...

 > There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
 > which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
 > in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
 > something I think ... anyone remember this?

As pointed out already, that's orthochromatic film, a great advance
over regular film, but hard to find these days as panchromatic film is
so much better still for everyday photography.

--
Stefano
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.steve-and-pattie.com/esperantujo" target="_blank">http://www.steve-and-pattie.com/esperantujo</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: a question of B/W film 

"AArDvarK" <noway.TakeThisOut@yourprob.com> wrote in message
news:<NXy5c.17191$Nj.3215@fed1read01>...
 >
 > There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
 > which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
 > in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
 > something I think ... anyone remember this?

There is 5302. "Fine Grain Release Positive" if I recall correctly. We
used it for making negs of motion picture film. 35mm only. I'd love to
find some in 120. <!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: a question of B/W film 

why not the Ilford stuff?
Alex

"jjs" <john DeleteThis @xyzzy.stafford.net> wrote in message news:john-2203041533340001@m-0-135.docsis.hbci.com...
 > "AArDvarK" <noway DeleteThis @yourprob.com> wrote in message
 > news:<NXy5c.17191$Nj.3215@fed1read01>...
  > >
  > > There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
  > > which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
  > > in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
  > > something I think ... anyone remember this?
 >
 > There is 5302. "Fine Grain Release Positive" if I recall correctly. We
 > used it for making negs of motion picture film. 35mm only. I'd love to
 > find some in 120. <!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: a question of B/W film 

"AArDvarK" <noway.TakeThisOut@yourprob.com> wrote in message
news:MsO7c.57$1I5.26@fed1read01...
 >
 > why not the Ilford stuff?
 > Alex
 >
Yes, it was still listed on their site as of yesterday. They advertised it
as a superb copy film. I enjoy using ortho film as one can develop by
inspection under red light. It also gives most landscapes a wonderfully
softer intonation which I find harder to obtain with pan films using the
modern super sharp and contrasty lenses of today.

 > "jjs" <john.TakeThisOut@xyzzy.stafford.net> wrote in message
news:john-2203041533340001@m-0-135.docsis.hbci.com...
  > > "AArDvarK" <noway.TakeThisOut@yourprob.com> wrote in message
  > > news:<NXy5c.17191$Nj.3215@fed1read01>...
   > > >
   > > > There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
   > > > which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
   > > > in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
   > > > something I think ... anyone remember this?
  > >
  > > There is 5302. "Fine Grain Release Positive" if I recall correctly. We
  > > used it for making negs of motion picture film. 35mm only. I'd love to
  > > find some in 120.
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: a question of B/W film 

"AArDvarK" <noway.RemoveThis@yourprob.com> wrote in message news:<NXy5c.17191$Nj.3215@fed1read01>...
 > There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
 > which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
 > in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
 > something I think ... anyone remember this? Does anyone
 > know if something close is still made? I know some
 > of Ansel's earliest work was done with it.
 >
 > Thanks all,
 >
 > Alex

You might be thinking of Verichrome Pan, the panchromatic version of
the earlier Verichrome film. The original was not sensitive to red.
But this film is long gone from Kodak.

Regards,

-Karl
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://pages.cthome.net/karlwinkler" target="_blank">http://pages.cthome.net/karlwinkler</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: a question of B/W film 

Now that sounds realistic to me somehow. Absolutely
everyone else has said 'Ortho' this or that. I have used
this stuff long ago in high school but just do not rem-
ember the Ortho name.

Thanks,

Alex

"Karl Winkler" <kwinkler.TakeThisOut@sennheiserusa.com> wrote in message news:779042cf.0403261640.456897ce@posting.google.com...
 > "AArDvarK" <noway.TakeThisOut@yourprob.com> wrote in message news:<NXy5c.17191$Nj.3215@fed1read01>...
  > > There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
  > > which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
  > > in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
  > > something I think ... anyone remember this? Does anyone
  > > know if something close is still made? I know some
  > > of Ansel's earliest work was done with it.
  > >
  > > Thanks all,
  > >
  > > Alex
 >
 > You might be thinking of Verichrome Pan, the panchromatic version of
 > the earlier Verichrome film. The original was not sensitive to red.
 > But this film is long gone from Kodak.
 >
 > Regards,
 >
 > -Karl
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://pages.cthome.net/karlwinkler</font" target="_blank">http://pages.cthome.net/karlwinkler</font</a>><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: a question of B/W film 

If you want an ortho film check out Macophot's offerings. They have a PO 100, which is ortho and a ORT 25. I
personally don't like ortho film. I find using a green filter gets me better results.
With respect to using any of these "ortho" films with a safelight, I'm told you can't as they still have a little
sensitivity to red light. I asked this question on the darkroom group some time ago and was told that many people now
use an infrared lamp with night vision goggles for development by inspection. I've never done this (my darkroom is a
closet) but it sounds like it might work, just make sure your film doesn't have infrared sensitivity.

AArDvarK wrote:

 > Now that sounds realistic to me somehow. Absolutely
 > everyone else has said 'Ortho' this or that. I have used
 > this stuff long ago in high school but just do not rem-
 > ember the Ortho name.
 >
 > Thanks,
 >
 > Alex
 >
 > "Karl Winkler" <kwinkler DeleteThis @sennheiserusa.com> wrote in message news:779042cf.0403261640.456897ce@posting.google.com...
  > > "AArDvarK" <noway DeleteThis @yourprob.com> wrote in message news:<NXy5c.17191$Nj.3215@fed1read01>...
   > > > There was once a film made by Kodak, black and white
   > > > which was not sensitive to red light, and could be as out
   > > > in the open and undeveloped under red light, Pan -
   > > > something I think ... anyone remember this? Does anyone
   > > > know if something close is still made? I know some
   > > > of Ansel's earliest work was done with it.
   > > >
   > > > Thanks all,
   > > >
   > > > Alex
  > >
  > > You might be thinking of Verichrome Pan, the panchromatic version of
  > > the earlier Verichrome film. The original was not sensitive to red.
  > > But this film is long gone from Kodak.
  > >
  > > Regards,
  > >
  > > -Karl
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://pages.cthome.net/karlwinkler</font" target="_blank">http://pages.cthome.net/karlwinkler</font</a>><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: a question of B/W film