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B&W film developing questions

 
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rodsmith

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Since: Aug 09, 2004
Posts: 48



(Msg. 61) Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:17 pm
Post subject: Re: B&W film developing questions [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>photo>darkroom (more info?)

In article <slrnfo6cbu.u39.gsm RemoveThis @cable.mendelson.com>,
gsm RemoveThis @mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes:
>
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> Gloves are for sissies.
>
> I found that in the 1980's skin problems I had went away when exposed to
> developing chemicals, but other people have had severe reactions.

My understanding is that the most common darkroom skin allergy is to metol
(or perhaps manufacturing impurities that get into metol; I've seen
arguments on this point). Using a metol-free developer can help minimize
the risk of developing such allergies. For film, neither XTOL nor Rodinal
contains metol, but many others (such as the popular D-76) contain metol.
Most commercial paper developers contain metol. Agfa (now A&O) Neutol Plus
and the Silvergrain Tektol line are both metol-free paper developers.
(Note that some other Agfa Neutol developers do contain metol, though;
it's only Neutol Plus that's metol-free.) There are also quite a few
mix-it-yourself paper developers that lack metol.

--
Rod Smith, rodsmith RemoveThis @rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

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rodsmith

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Since: Aug 09, 2004
Posts: 48



(Msg. 62) Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:43 pm
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In article <13o682g53fl2id9 DeleteThis @corp.supernews.com>,
"G.T." <getnews1 DeleteThis @dslextreme.com> writes:
>
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>> On 1/7/2008 7:46 PM G.T. spake thus:
>>
>>> With the drums can I agitate manually or is it too inconvenient to
>>> agitate it myself? Do I need to get a roller, too?
>>
>> I'd spend the extra fifty cents and get the motor base.
>
> I should have read this post before sending my last one. So these days
> the used motor bases are quite cheap?

They're fairly cheap on eBay. On average, they probably cost more than
$0.50 (if only for shipping -- the motor base weighs more than a drum),
but the nature of eBay and the current market for darkroom equipment is
that if you're willing to wait, you can find what you want pretty cheaply
-- maybe even for $0.50. Unfortunately, eBay's not responding for me right
now so I can't check on current auctions and prices. Do a search on "drum"
in the photo section; that'll give you an idea for the current market.
(Note that there's a check box along the left of the screen to show
completed auctions, so you can tell what items actually sell for rather
than what the high bid is hours or days before the auctions end.)

>> It also uses a *lot* less chemistry, since you don't have to fill a
>> whole tray.

Yes and no. My 8x10 drum seems to work well with 70ml of chemicals. That
70ml will be close to exhausted by a single sheet, though, so it's best to
use the solution one-shot. When I use open trays, I use 1l (1000ml) of
developer in an 8x10 tray, and I typically get at least 20 8x10 prints out
of that, which works out to 50ml per print. Of course, it would be
possible to extend the life of the chemicals when using the drum -- say by
using a replenishment scheme. That adds to the hassle, though.

Ultimately I guess it depends on what's important to you and how you
prefer to work. If you want to mix up small quantities of chemistry (for
easy storage) from liquid concentrates, the low solution volumes required
by a drum might be appealing. From an economic standpoint, there's
probably not much difference, or open trays might get the nod. If you're
using a powdered developer (such as Dektol), you'll need to mix large
quantities anyhow, so the need for larger volumes to fill trays won't be
much of an issue.

--
Rod Smith, rodsmith DeleteThis @rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking

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Ken Hart

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Since: Jan 08, 2008
Posts: 38



(Msg. 63) Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:32 pm
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"G.T." <getnews1.DeleteThis@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:13o67vghc0u1jbc@corp.supernews.com...
> Ken Hart wrote:

snip
> Excellent advice. I assume the roller is just a base that makes it easy
> to manually roll the drum in place? Or is it motorized?

Motorized. Be advised: the drum tends to 'walk' on the base, so it can fall
off if you aren't paying attention.
>
> I have my own easel, filters, grain checker, and a couple of trays so let
> me get a list together here of the rest of the stuff I would need:
>
> enlarger, lens, neg holder, timer
> safelight
> paper developer
> 2 drums
> I can use my two trays for the initial wash and hypo clearing?
> something to use for washing

The housewares (kitchen stuff) at WalMart is your friend! Various
plastic/Rubbermaid containers will work for a washing tray. You can slao get
containers for your chems. Pick up a Sharpie brand marker to label the
containers (waterproof).

> print wiper
> dryer?

If you are using RC papers, don't fret wiping the print. Just lay it face up
on a towel to air dry. You could also get some sort of plastic-covered wire
rack-- again the housewares department. There are numerous dryer 'machines'
on the market for RC paper-- most all work on some sort of air drying.
>
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Ken Hart

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Since: Jan 08, 2008
Posts: 38



(Msg. 64) Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:34 pm
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"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm DeleteThis @mendelson.com> wrote in message
news:slrnfo6927.t6p.gsm@cable.mendelson.com...
> G.T. wrote:
>> enlarger, lens, neg holder, timer
>
> I started out without a timer, I used a watch.
> Before that I used the the old "one-one thousand" method for
> timing exposure and developed by inspection.
>
>> safelight
>
> That's a touchy subject here. Safelight type, color and position vary a
> lot and as long as they don't fog your paper, it's a matter of money and
> personal preference. If you can figure out the electrical wiring a
> connection that turns off the safelight while the enlarger is on will
> make setup and focusing easier.
>

It is easier to focus with the safelight off. Most enlarger timers have an
outlet for the enlarger and another outlet for the safelight. When the
enlarger is on, the safelight is off.
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Ken Hart

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Since: Jan 08, 2008
Posts: 38



(Msg. 65) Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:42 pm
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"David Nebenzahl" <nobody.DeleteThis@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:47832798$0$16276$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> On 1/7/2008 11:28 PM G.T. spake thus:
>
>> Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
> >
>>> Tongs, stop bath and fixer. Gloves if you have skin problems
>>> with the chemicals.
>>
>> Yeah, got those except for the gloves.
>
> Gloves are for sissies.

Generalization. I don't use gloves in the black and white darkroom, but I do
use tongs-- to minimize chemical contamination.
I found out the hard way to use gloves when cleaing the color (RA4)
processor. I reached down in the color developer tank and within a day or
so, I had several nasty rashes on my arm that took weeks to clear up.
Developers basically attack the oils in the skin and for some people,
especially with dry skin issues, it can cause problems. Don't sweat it, wash
your hands and maybe use a skin moisturizer after a darkroom session.
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user

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Since: Dec 31, 2007
Posts: 133



(Msg. 66) Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:40 am
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In article <fm3i3n$oo2$1@aioe.org>, "Ken Hart" <kwhart1.TakeThisOut@verizon.net>
wrote:

> It is easier to focus with the safelight off.

Nominally. Most people don't project the safelight onto the easel and if
the light is bright enough to cause that kind of issue = making it hard
to focus the safe light is really to bright.

--
Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.
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Pieter

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Since: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 5



(Msg. 67) Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:28 am
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I have a safelight in the enlarger area as well as one over the sink. I set
up the print and focus with the enlager lens wide open for maximim image
light. The last step before printing is to stop the enlarger lens down to
the correct stop.


"____" <internetphobic DeleteThis @deletedmail.com> wrote in message
news:internetphobic-E580AF.08405813012008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> In article <fm3i3n$oo2$1@aioe.org>, "Ken Hart" <kwhart1 DeleteThis @verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>> It is easier to focus with the safelight off.
>
> Nominally. Most people don't project the safelight onto the easel and if
> the light is bright enough to cause that kind of issue = making it hard
> to focus the safe light is really to bright.
>
> --
> Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.
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user1468

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Since: Dec 06, 2004
Posts: 100



(Msg. 68) Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:45 pm
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On Jan 5, 12:57 am, "Lawrence Akutagawa" wrote:
>
> My two bits - Rodinal is one time use.
>
Acu-1 is the one-shot version of Acufine.
>
> My own prediliction is to decant the 500ml container into
> 1 oz (30 ml) glass amber bottles.  I keep these tightly capped
> and use them in succession.
>
> I don't use any commercial stop.  I use two successive
> water rinses instead.
>
Likely you'll find those 1 oz bottles hold 34 to 35 ml.
I don't bother with a stop because the one-shot very dilute
fixer I use does not load up with carry forward developer. Using
a Rapid fixer concentrate, 20ml should suffice for just about any
35mm or 120 film. My dilution when using A. Thiosulfate
concentrate runs 1:24; solution volume 500ml. Fresh
fix each roll, no need to rebottle or test.

The A. Thiosulfate concentrate looked to be going bad the
little I've been using it. So now I use S. Thiosulfate, film and
prints. I doubt it ever goes bad. Dan
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user

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Since: Jan 08, 2008
Posts: 60



(Msg. 69) Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:48 pm
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"Pieter" <pvcl@*nospam*plitch.com> wrote in message
news:478a3c21$0$5184$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>I have a safelight in the enlarger area as well as one over the sink. I
>set up the print and focus with the enlager lens wide open for maximim
>image light. The last step before printing is to stop the enlarger lens
>down to the correct stop.

Sad I had a lens that shifted focus when stopped down.
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user

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Since: Dec 31, 2007
Posts: 133



(Msg. 70) Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:41 pm
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In article <13ol598rk5vlc0f RemoveThis @news.supernews.com>, <jjs> wrote:

> "Pieter" <pvcl@*nospam*plitch.com> wrote in message
> news:478a3c21$0$5184$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> >I have a safelight in the enlarger area as well as one over the sink. I
> >set up the print and focus with the enlager lens wide open for maximim
> >image light. The last step before printing is to stop the enlarger lens
> >down to the correct stop.
>
> Sad I had a lens that shifted focus when stopped down.

They all do to a smaller or larger amount.

I've always focused at the intended f/stop. The lens goes to f/45
typically I use f/22. With a Micromega focuser all but the tightest
grain can be seen. Since I color print also, I am fairly comfortable
with using fairly dim safe light when doing b&w printing.

--
Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.
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user

External


Since: Jan 08, 2008
Posts: 60



(Msg. 71) Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:38 pm
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"____" <internetphobic RemoveThis @deletedmail.com> wrote in message
news:internetphobic-4622DE.18414213012008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> In article <13ol598rk5vlc0f RemoveThis @news.supernews.com>, <jjs> wrote:
Sad I had a lens that shifted focus when stopped down.
>
> They all do to a smaller or larger amount.
>
> I've always focused at the intended f/stop. The lens goes to f/45
> typically I use f/22. With a Micromega focuser all but the tightest
> grain can be seen. Since I color print also, I am fairly comfortable
> with using fairly dim safe light when doing b&w printing.

Yes. I stop to F8 at the most and focus there. I've had some astounding
results with 16x20 prints from grainy 35mm. Grain is my friend.
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George Mastellone

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Since: Nov 27, 2006
Posts: 3



(Msg. 72) Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:32 pm
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____ wrote:

> I've always focused at the intended f/stop. The lens goes to f/45
> typically I use f/22. With a Micromega focuser all but the tightest
> grain can be seen. Since I color print also, I am fairly comfortable
> with using fairly dim safe light when doing b&w printing.
>

What lens, focal length and film format? I can't see any point in
stopping down so far (particularly with shorter focal length lenses for
smaller formats) since diffraction effects are going to cut down on
sharpness and obviously depth of field is no problem here! And think of
the time you'll save with shorter exposures!
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user1468

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Since: Dec 06, 2004
Posts: 100



(Msg. 73) Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:28 pm
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On Jan 7, 11:30 am, "G.T." <getne....RemoveThis@dslextreme.com> wrote:v
>
> Print, load in drum, fill with developer, agitate, empty developer,
> fill with stop and agitate, empty, fill with fixer and agitate, empty.
> Then hypo clear, wash, and dry?
>
> Would the last paragraph be considered the one tray method?
> Thanks, Greg
>

One tray, one tank. Very similar. Big difference; tray with
safelights on. Nice to see what is going on which is very easy
when using Graded paper. A high level of yellow-ish orange
safelighting can be used. Emergence times are impossible
to measure if a tank is used and developing to completion
less certain.
Single tray processing takes some more solution volume
than does the tank; a quarter liter or a little more.doing
8x10s. I use developer and fixer one-shot very dilute
and as with film, mentioned in an earlier post,
needs no stop; develop, fix. Saves a lot of
space and cleanup time. Dan
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user

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Since: Dec 31, 2007
Posts: 133



(Msg. 74) Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:07 pm
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In article <Q6SdnXTSDrdeShfanZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d.RemoveThis@comcast.com>,
George Mastellone <widephoto.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote:

> ____ wrote:
>
> > I've always focused at the intended f/stop. The lens goes to f/45
> > typically I use f/22. With a Micromega focuser all but the tightest
> > grain can be seen. Since I color print also, I am fairly comfortable
> > with using fairly dim safe light when doing b&w printing.
> >
>
> What lens, focal length and film format? I can't see any point in
> stopping down so far (particularly with shorter focal length lenses for
> smaller formats) since diffraction effects are going to cut down on
> sharpness and obviously depth of field is no problem here! And think of
> the time you'll save with shorter exposures!

I don't want a shorter exposure than 12 seconds. Format in the above
case 4x5, focal length 150 mm. Darkroom work should not be a speed race
Smile

--
Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.
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user1468

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Since: Dec 06, 2004
Posts: 100



(Msg. 75) Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:34 pm
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On Jan 9, 2:32 pm, "Ken Hart" <kwha... DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > dryer?
>
> If you are using RC papers, don't fret wiping the print.
>

I keep a sponge handy for the purpose. Wet and squeese
dry before use. Wipe both sides. RC then dries very fast. Prop
or lay to dry.
I've quite RC and have gone all FB. Still sponge though.
Afterwards the prints are sandwiched twixt layers of non-woven,
hydrophobic polyester sheets and a special water resistant but
vapor permeable corrugated board. The print dryer.
Extremely inexpensive, extremely light weight, extremely,
portable, extremely compact. A slow and gentil dry for
FB prints. Dan
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