eos 5 eos 1 or whole new nikon system?

"David Littlewood" <david RemoveThis @nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:nXwzLeBP4Dh$Ew4G@dlittlewood.demon.co.uk...
 > In article <7dSgb.1038$Gk.8948892@news-text.cableinet.net>, Deathwalker
 > <ian-lincoln RemoveThis @blueyonder.co.uk> writes
  > >been offered an eos 5 for £225 with battery grip in a private sale is
this
  > >good? i'm alos considering an eos 1. There seem to be several variants.
  > >Not worried about picture taking modes but would merely like a camera
with
  > >high flash sync speed, deadly accurate focus which doesn't require an af
  > >illuminator and as easy to use in manual overide as possible. Used to
own
  > >an A1 with genuine FD lenses. Disappointed with my 300 exposure and 50E
  > >focusing. Some afficionadoes say the only way to get best optical
quality
  > >and accurate metering is to go nikon route. Currently have sigma 80-200,
  > >canon 75-300 and 28-80 usm. AFter the A1 simplicity and build quality
seem
  > >better than all the other tricks they stuff in these days. Only thing is
  > >fully manual with 50E only leaves me with centreweighted metering.
  > >
  > >your thoughts and advice please.
  > >
 > Canon, Nikon, Minolta etc all make good cameras; you really should think
 > very carefully before incurring the cost of changing to a different
 > system. However, your Canon-fit lenses are from the bottom end of the
 > range, and you may feel it would not be too much of a sacrifice.
 >
 > I have used an EOS 1n as my main 35mm camera for several years. Its AF
 > is unerringly accurate, its exposure metering is about as good as it
 > gets, and all in all it is an excellent, robust pro-level camera. It
 > lacks a few of the bells and whistles of the 1v but I certainly never
 > thought they were important enough to spend £1000 to upgrade! You may
 > find it a little heavy compared with your previous EOS bodies. Near-mint
 > second hand bodies are now quite reasonable in price.
 >
 > I have never used an EOS 5 but I have handled one. I didn't really care
 > for it, as it seemed a bit plasticky (but bear in mind that I am a 1n
 > user!). There have been many reports of the thumb wheel breaking. It
 > does however have the advantage of built-in flash, eye-control AF, and
 > of course is now even cheaper on the second hand market.
 >
 > I think your best bet is to find a dealer who has good second hand
 > examples of both, and give them a good try out in your hand.
 >
 > BTW, I also used to use an A1 as my main camera before moving to EOS,
 > and thought it was excellent (in fact I still have it for repro and
 > macro work).
 > --
 > David Littlewood<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: eos 5 eos 1 or whole new nikon system? 

"David Littlewood" <david DeleteThis @nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:nXwzLeBP4Dh$Ew4G@dlittlewood.demon.co.uk...
 > In article <7dSgb.1038$Gk.8948892@news-text.cableinet.net>, Deathwalker
with centreweighted metering.
  > >
  > >your thoughts and advice please.
  > >
 > Canon, Nikon, Minolta etc all make good cameras; you really should think
 > very carefully before incurring the cost of changing to a different
 > system. However, your Canon-fit lenses are from the bottom end of the
 > range, and you may feel it would not be too much of a sacrifice.

I was wondering whether i just needed better glass. It would have to be
second hand. Those babies cost more than the cameras! Are sigma
apochromatic more to your liking. I don't know how the independents rank.
I suggested nikon as one dealer said if i wanted a manual aperture ring my
only choice was nikon. Even then it would have to be one of the early af
models.

 > I have used an EOS 1n as my main 35mm camera for several years. Its AF
 > is unerringly accurate, its exposure metering is about as good as it
 > gets, and all in all it is an excellent, robust pro-level camera. It
 > lacks a few of the bells and whistles of the 1v but I certainly never
 > thought they were important enough to spend £1000 to upgrade! You may
 > find it a little heavy compared with your previous EOS bodies. Near-mint
 > second hand bodies are now quite reasonable in price.
 >
 > I have never used an EOS 5 but I have handled one. I didn't really care
 > for it, as it seemed a bit plasticky (but bear in mind that I am a 1n
 > user!). There have been many reports of the thumb wheel breaking. It
 > does however have the advantage of built-in flash, eye-control AF, and
 > of course is now even cheaper on the second hand market.

Apart from beign quite out of date on the hardware scene i believe the
computer i possess between my ears is far superior to bells and whistles. I
really want modern metering and af with the simple handling of the A1. I
believe the models i looked at for £299
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="https://secure.ffordes.com/index.htm" target="_blank">https://secure.ffordes.com/index.htm</a> are EOS1 not n v rs rt just 1. hence
the price being less than £450. What does the n have that the original
didn't?

As for the eos 5 i've been offered one for £225 mint by my auntie so i
happen to know its barely used. Dealers start at £250 and ebay bidding on
the only one on the list is going for £190. Eos 5 was the semi pro my a1 was
the semi pro with the F1 being the equivalent to the eos 1 of the FD fit
lenses.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: eos 5 eos 1 or whole new nikon system? 

Penultimate question first, the 1n has an incrementally faster frame rate,
5 focus points vs 1, better AF and that's pretty much it. Like David, I am
quite satisfied with my 1n, with an A2 (EOS5) as backup, I never felt the
need to upgrade to a 1v or EOS3 (the 5's successor.) You have the model
line up down pretty well, the A2/EOS5 is the EF mount equivalent of the old
FD mount A-1, the EOS1 series, the equivalent of the F-1 series.
Better glass is probably your best investment. Sigma is probably not the
best way to go about it, although I've been pretty happy with the two Sigmas
I have, the 15mm fisheye and 17-35 f2.8-4. Sigmas have a documented history
of compatibility problems with successive Canon introductions, you may find
yourself with a Sigma lens that won't work on some future Canon you may buy.
Tamron and Tokina are alternatives to look into, Tokina has a 28-80 f2.8
that is supposed to be a stellar performer. I checked one out, and was duly
impressed. The Canon 28-135 f3.5-5.6 IS USM is an impressive lens, coming
in at under $400US new at B&H these days. I have one, and swear by it. It
is light years better than the 28-90 you are using now.
Try better glass, and if that doesn't do it, then go to another body, but
there's no reason the glass shouldn't improve your images satisfactorily.

--
Skip Middleton
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com" target="_blank">www.shadowcatcherimagery.com</a>
"Deathwalker" <ian-lincoln RemoveThis @blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hI_gb.1602$pU4.13598819@news-text.cableinet.net...
 >
 > "David Littlewood" <david RemoveThis @nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
 > news:nXwzLeBP4Dh$Ew4G@dlittlewood.demon.co.uk...
  > > In article <7dSgb.1038$Gk.8948892@news-text.cableinet.net>, Deathwalker
 > with centreweighted metering.
   > > >
   > > >your thoughts and advice please.
   > > >
  > > Canon, Nikon, Minolta etc all make good cameras; you really should think
  > > very carefully before incurring the cost of changing to a different
  > > system. However, your Canon-fit lenses are from the bottom end of the
  > > range, and you may feel it would not be too much of a sacrifice.
 >
 > I was wondering whether i just needed better glass. It would have to be
 > second hand. Those babies cost more than the cameras! Are sigma
 > apochromatic more to your liking. I don't know how the independents rank.
 > I suggested nikon as one dealer said if i wanted a manual aperture ring my
 > only choice was nikon. Even then it would have to be one of the early af
 > models.
 >
  > > I have used an EOS 1n as my main 35mm camera for several years. Its AF
  > > is unerringly accurate, its exposure metering is about as good as it
  > > gets, and all in all it is an excellent, robust pro-level camera. It
  > > lacks a few of the bells and whistles of the 1v but I certainly never
  > > thought they were important enough to spend £1000 to upgrade! You may
  > > find it a little heavy compared with your previous EOS bodies. Near-mint
  > > second hand bodies are now quite reasonable in price.
  > >
  > > I have never used an EOS 5 but I have handled one. I didn't really care
  > > for it, as it seemed a bit plasticky (but bear in mind that I am a 1n
  > > user!). There have been many reports of the thumb wheel breaking. It
  > > does however have the advantage of built-in flash, eye-control AF, and
  > > of course is now even cheaper on the second hand market.
 >
 > Apart from beign quite out of date on the hardware scene i believe the
 > computer i possess between my ears is far superior to bells and whistles.
I
 > really want modern metering and af with the simple handling of the A1. I
 > believe the models i looked at for £299
 > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="https://secure.ffordes.com/index.htm" target="_blank">https://secure.ffordes.com/index.htm</a> are EOS1 not n v rs rt just 1. hence
 > the price being less than £450. What does the n have that the original
 > didn't?
 >
 > As for the eos 5 i've been offered one for £225 mint by my auntie so i
 > happen to know its barely used. Dealers start at £250 and ebay bidding on
 > the only one on the list is going for £190. Eos 5 was the semi pro my a1
was
 > the semi pro with the F1 being the equivalent to the eos 1 of the FD fit
 > lenses.
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: eos 5 eos 1 or whole new nikon system? 

"Skip Middleton" <shadowcatcher.TakeThisOut@cox.net> wrote in message
news:C%%gb.16930$gi2.10856@fed1read01...
 > Penultimate question first, the 1n has an incrementally faster frame
rate,
 > 5 focus points vs 1, better AF and that's pretty much it. Like David, I
am
 > quite satisfied with my 1n, with an A2 (EOS5) as backup, I never felt the
 > need to upgrade to a 1v or EOS3 (the 5's successor.) You have the model
 > line up down pretty well, the A2/EOS5 is the EF mount equivalent of the
old
 > FD mount A-1, the EOS1 series, the equivalent of the F-1 series.
 > Better glass is probably your best investment. Sigma is probably not the
 > best way to go about it, although I've been pretty happy with the two
Sigmas
 > I have, the 15mm fisheye and 17-35 f2.8-4. Sigmas have a documented
history
 > of compatibility problems with successive Canon introductions, you may
find
 > yourself with a Sigma lens that won't work on some future Canon you may
buy.
 > Tamron and Tokina are alternatives to look into, Tokina has a 28-80 f2.8
 > that is supposed to be a stellar performer. I checked one out, and was
duly
 > impressed. The Canon 28-135 f3.5-5.6 IS USM is an impressive lens, coming
 > in at under $400US new at B&H these days. I have one, and swear by it.
It
 > is light years better than the 28-90 you are using now.
 > Try better glass, and if that doesn't do it, then go to another body, but
 > there's no reason the glass shouldn't improve your images satisfactorily.
 >


Ok. I have a 80-200 sigma that doesn't reliably work with the 50E. Had
the camera and lense checked they concluded same as yourself. I thought
they would say that canon only was best for their own reasons you seem to be
justifying that suspicion. They didn't mention tokina and tamron which they
obviously should have.

Rang sigma and they reckoned the diaphragm contact was breaking down hence
the intermediate fault. They said if it was incompatibility it would work
or it wouldn't. Anyway after coming back from local camera shop the thing
is working. Sigma want £60 to just look at lense and attempt fix. probably
not worth that. Probably work on eos 5 or eos 1000.

Local shop gave me my repair deposit back as yes there was a fault and no
they couldn't fix it. So they ain't all bad.

They also blamed the poor focusing performance on my cheap replacement film
instead of konica fuji or kodak.

Given the choice i prefer fuji. Their frontier machines are brilliant
too. I use fuji own process paid slide film too.

1.so on balance you would recommend tokina and tamron over sigma?
2.Is the extra to buy genuine canon glass worth it?
3.Do tokina and tamron do this apo glass? I believe there is some kind of
crystal that qualifies the APO (Apochromatic) it having a better refraction
index than normal. Seen adverts for canon and sigma but not the
other two.

4.USM may be better than canon standard but its about speed and quiet not
optical?

5. If i bought an eos 1 would i be better spending the extra to get the 1n?



To be honest after seeing the results with the 50E and the failure of the
sigma lense i gave up photography for years. Just regretted selling my A1
with FD 70-210 (with f4 through all the focal lengths) lens too much. That
had a trombone arrangement so focus and focal length was the one grip.
Great for doing night zoom effects. Massive enlargements possible pin
sharp.

Anyway picked up the camera again and joined southgate photographic society.
Vast majority of members retired. Most are lrps or some such. There are
five of us in the beginners group the rest are advanced. I ended up buying
a minolta dimage scan elite II and a canon i850 printer. Still not winning
any comps. Not even getting placed. One of the guys is a carpenter so i
have a device for making framed mounts out of dala. Now they're judging me
on the edges of my frames and choice of colour sheesh!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: eos 5 eos 1 or whole new nikon system? 

1) Yes, within limits, oranges to oranges, as it were. Best glass to best
glass, the Sigmas hold their own optically, but are not as well built as
some, and there's that compatibility problem.
2) Yes, again within the same limits. The best Canon glass is as good as it
gets, the bottom of the stack is, while not stellar, better than the bottom
of the stack from aftermarket mfrs.
Your 28-90 is better, for instance than the Sigma 28-105 f2..8-4, which is
truly dire.
3) Everybody has apochromatic glass, and all have some form of low
dispersion elements, too, generally farther up the product line. Tokina ATX
Pro, (the 28-80 f2.8 I mentioned earlier is an example) Sigma EX and Canon L
fit that description, having both types of glass. Some of Canon's consumer
line has apochromatic glass, too, as do some of the other mfrs'.
4) Yes USM is about speed and silence, but they are usually better optically
than non USM lenses. Not always, but usually. There are exceptions, the
old 100-300 f5.6 L was not a USM lens, but was superior optically to the non
"L" lens. Be advised, there are two types of USM, "micromotor" USM, which
uses an improved version of the standard lens' motor, and "ring" USM, often
referred to as "true" USM, which has a true ultrasonic ring motor in it.
There is no way to infer which is which in the product description, but
"ring" USM has a non rotating front element, critical if you are using a
filter which has an orientation, like a polarizing filter. "Ring" USM
lenses are also a little quieter and faster focusing than their micromotor
USM brethren.
5) I'd say the extra money is worth it, I feel limited by the one focus
point. With 5 focus points, you can change to the one closest to the
subject or the part of the image you want to focus on, and you can connect
the spot meter to that focus point, so you can meter from the same area.
An argument can be made for the EOS5, it has the same 5 focus points and
spot meter, though coverage is slightly larger (something critically missing
from the 50, IMHO), faster frame rate, a built in flash with a zoom feature.
It is the command dial that has a habit of breaking, but if this has been
repaired, the repair is permanent. I've had my A2 for nearly 5 years, and
it hasn't broken...yet.
As an aside, my wife has an Elan II, the same as your 50E, but without eye
control. She loves it, and has gotten excellent results. She has been
jurored into countless shows and taken many awards, both locally and
nationally. It's a good little camera!

--
Skip Middleton
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com" target="_blank">www.shadowcatcherimagery.com</a>
"Deathwalker" <ian-lincoln RemoveThis @blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ex0hb.1712$P06.15238190@news-text.cableinet.net...
 >
  > >
 > Ok. I have a 80-200 sigma that doesn't reliably work with the 50E. Had
 > the camera and lense checked they concluded same as yourself. I thought
 > they would say that canon only was best for their own reasons you seem to
be
 > justifying that suspicion. They didn't mention tokina and tamron which
they
 > obviously should have.
 >
 > Rang sigma and they reckoned the diaphragm contact was breaking down
hence
 > the intermediate fault. They said if it was incompatibility it would work
 > or it wouldn't. Anyway after coming back from local camera shop the thing
 > is working. Sigma want £60 to just look at lense and attempt fix.
probably
 > not worth that. Probably work on eos 5 or eos 1000.
 >
 > Local shop gave me my repair deposit back as yes there was a fault and no
 > they couldn't fix it. So they ain't all bad.
 >
 > They also blamed the poor focusing performance on my cheap replacement
film
 > instead of konica fuji or kodak.
 >
 > Given the choice i prefer fuji. Their frontier machines are brilliant
 > too. I use fuji own process paid slide film too.
 >
 > 1.so on balance you would recommend tokina and tamron over sigma?
 > 2.Is the extra to buy genuine canon glass worth it?
 > 3.Do tokina and tamron do this apo glass? I believe there is some kind of
 > crystal that qualifies the APO (Apochromatic) it having a better
refraction
 > index than normal. Seen adverts for canon and sigma but not the
 > other two.
 >
 > 4.USM may be better than canon standard but its about speed and quiet not
 > optical?
 >
 > 5. If i bought an eos 1 would i be better spending the extra to get the
1n?
 >
 >
 >
 > To be honest after seeing the results with the 50E and the failure of the
 > sigma lense i gave up photography for years. Just regretted selling my A1
 > with FD 70-210 (with f4 through all the focal lengths) lens too much.
That
 > had a trombone arrangement so focus and focal length was the one grip.
 > Great for doing night zoom effects. Massive enlargements possible pin
 > sharp.
 >
 > Anyway picked up the camera again and joined southgate photographic
society.
 > Vast majority of members retired. Most are lrps or some such. There are
 > five of us in the beginners group the rest are advanced. I ended up
buying
 > a minolta dimage scan elite II and a canon i850 printer. Still not
winning
 > any comps. Not even getting placed. One of the guys is a carpenter so i
 > have a device for making framed mounts out of dala. Now they're judging
me
 > on the edges of my frames and choice of colour sheesh!
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: eos 5 eos 1 or whole new nikon system? 

In article <7dSgb.1038$Gk.8948892@news-text.cableinet.net>, Deathwalker
<ian-lincoln RemoveThis @blueyonder.co.uk> writes
 >been offered an eos 5 for £225 with battery grip

Be careful with the 'battery grip', as far as I know Canon didn't make a
battery grip for the EOS 5. They did produce a 'vertical grip' the
'VG10' but it does not do anything with batteries, it merely provides a
vertical grip (still useful though). They did make a remote battery pack
(BP-5 or BP50?) which took several 'C' or 'D' sized cells on some kind
of belt pack, but this did not come with a grip.

The dial that usually breaks on the 5 is the mode dial (left of the
pentaprism) and not the thumbwheel. Basically it will break and Canon's
repair does not seem to prevent it happening again. Mine lasted about 6
rolls of film (from new) with kid-gloves treatment.

The good thing about the 5 is the 5fps straight out of the box,
something the 1 & 1n need a booster pack for. Watch battery consumption,
mine zapped a 2CR5 in 4 rolls and the second battery lasted only two
more. When not shooting you might be better removing the battery all
together.

 > in a private sale is this
 >good? i'm alos considering an eos 1. There seem to be several variants.
 >Not worried about picture taking modes but would merely like a camera with
 >high flash sync speed, deadly accurate focus which doesn't require an af
 >illuminator and as easy to use in manual overide as possible. Used to own
 >an A1 with genuine FD lenses. Disappointed with my 300 exposure and 50E
 >focusing. Some afficionadoes say the only way to get best optical quality
 >and accurate metering is to go nikon route. Currently have sigma 80-200,
 >canon 75-300 and 28-80 usm. AFter the A1 simplicity and build quality seem
 >better than all the other tricks they stuff in these days. Only thing is
 >fully manual with 50E only leaves me with centreweighted metering.
 >
 >your thoughts and advice please.

--
John

Preston, Lancs, UK.
Photos at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.photopia.demon.co.uk" target="_blank">http://www.photopia.demon.co.uk</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: eos 5 eos 1 or whole new nikon system?