 |
|
 |
|
Next: Grainy photo help
|
| Author |
Message |
External

Since: Sep 04, 2003 Posts: 1
|
(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:36 pm
Post subject: color slide -> B&W print Archived from groups: rec>photo>film+labs, others (more info?)
|
|
|
Being a climber who takes pictures (much) more than a photographer who
climbs, I've always taken slide film for slide shows, color prints,
etc. Yet when I was putting together a little website for a trip I
took to Mt McKinley earlier this summer
(http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~mamiller/docs/journal/2003/06/01-20-denali),
I played with some of the images in Photoshop, including making some of
them b&w. I found these far more dramatic and exciting. In the future
I'm far more likely to take b&w.
But for now, I want to make, if possible, some b&w prints of my slides.
I asked my local custom lab (Ziba, in Berkeley, CA) to do this, and
they did, but it has a purplish tint, which I found, afterward, is a
natural failing of the process - basically printing through a magenta
filter onto regular color paper. From talking to others, I think what
I want, in order to get blacks which are truly neutral, is for the
print to be on silver process paper? or fiber paper? But apparently a
different process is used for that? One which not many labs do,
perhaps, according to my research?
In the best of all possible worlds I would be able to make such a (true
b&w) print from a digital image, which I could play with in Photoshop
after having scanned in (I'm so new to all this: is a 3k dpi drum scan
of a 35mm slide generally sufficient for a 16"x20" if I'm not a clarity
freak)
That's the background. My central questions are, I believe
-What process should I ask for to get a true black and white print
from a) a digital image, and/ or b) a color slide.
-Given I've not had luck in this area talking to some of the custom
labs in my area, can someone recommend a lab (ideally in in the SF
Bay Area, though not exclusively) which can do this
-Does anyone have rough ideas on what one might expect to pay for such
prints (at 16"x20")?
-Is a 3k dpi drum scan of a 35mm slide generally sufficient for a
16"x20" if I'm not a clarity freak?
Thanks for any information on this topic. Please believe that I have I
have done a bit of research at local camera shops, labs, and on the
web, before bothering you. Nevertheless, if there is some faq at
photo.net or whatever, which addresses this topic but which I've not
seen, please feel free to simply put me in contact with that.
Mark Miller
Berkeley, CA >> Stay informed about: color slide -> B&W print |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Nov 24, 2003 Posts: 15
|
(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:07 pm
Post subject: Re: color slide -> B&W print [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Mark, sounds like you have a computer and a scanner.
The best way to convert your scanned color slides to B&W
is probably a Photoshop tool called "Channel Mixer".
There are many other methods, but this is the best
combination of simplicity and power IMHO.
The real trick is getting a good B&W print once you have
a B&W image in Photoshop. There is an entire Yahoo
discussion group dedicated to this topic:
groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
The problems are: metamerism - the tone looks different under
different types of light; bronzing - when you look at the
print at an angle, the white areas appear to be "behind" the
others; and visible dots in the highlights (areas that are
almost white, but have some ink).
These problems are all daunting. It's a bald-faced lie for
Epson to say the Epson 2200 does good B&W prints "out of
the box". HP has a brand-new 8-ink printer that is reputed
to do good B&W prints out of the box.
The good news is that LOTS of exciting stuff is happening,
virutally every day. New software for BW printing (much
of it free, see <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bowhaus.com/inkjetcontrol" target="_blank">www.bowhaus.com/inkjetcontrol</a> and
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.harrington.com/QuadToneRIP.html" target="_blank">www.harrington.com/QuadToneRIP.html</a>). New inksets
specifically made for B&W printing. New papers. Coating
methods. It's very exiciting, but dauntingly confusing.
The really good news is that the people who have B&W
inkjet printing really worked out seem to be getting
results equal or better than those from a wet darkroom.
Anyhow, go to the Yahoo group and look around.
Good luck, John<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: color slide -> B&W print |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jun 23, 2003 Posts: 82
|
(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 7:05 pm
Post subject: Re: color slide -> B&W print [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Hi Mark,
I do this all the time. The slide is panchromatic in nature and prints
directly to black and white paper without any difficulty. I generally
try to use graded paper to avoid filtration issues. But you can get
great effects with filtration. Your local lab may have been printing on
to color paper, trying to imitate black and white. You need to have it
printed on true black and white paper. The best way is to do it
yourself with an enlarger and developing chemicals.
Francis A. Miniter
mark miller wrote:
>Being a climber who takes pictures (much) more than a photographer who
>climbs, I've always taken slide film for slide shows, color prints,
>etc. Yet when I was putting together a little website for a trip I
>took to Mt McKinley earlier this summer
>(http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~mamiller/docs/journal/2003/06/01-20-denali),
>I played with some of the images in Photoshop, including making some of
>them b&w. I found these far more dramatic and exciting. In the future
>I'm far more likely to take b&w.
>
>But for now, I want to make, if possible, some b&w prints of my slides.
>I asked my local custom lab (Ziba, in Berkeley, CA) to do this, and
>they did, but it has a purplish tint, which I found, afterward, is a
>natural failing of the process - basically printing through a magenta
>filter onto regular color paper. From talking to others, I think what
>I want, in order to get blacks which are truly neutral, is for the
>print to be on silver process paper? or fiber paper? But apparently a
>different process is used for that? One which not many labs do,
>perhaps, according to my research?
>
>In the best of all possible worlds I would be able to make such a (true
>b&w) print from a digital image, which I could play with in Photoshop
>after having scanned in (I'm so new to all this: is a 3k dpi drum scan
>of a 35mm slide generally sufficient for a 16"x20" if I'm not a clarity
>freak)
>
>That's the background. My central questions are, I believe
>
> -What process should I ask for to get a true black and white print
> from a) a digital image, and/ or b) a color slide.
>
> -Given I've not had luck in this area talking to some of the custom
> labs in my area, can someone recommend a lab (ideally in in the SF
> Bay Area, though not exclusively) which can do this
>
> -Does anyone have rough ideas on what one might expect to pay for such
> prints (at 16"x20")?
>
> -Is a 3k dpi drum scan of a 35mm slide generally sufficient for a
> 16"x20" if I'm not a clarity freak?
>
>Thanks for any information on this topic. Please believe that I have I
>have done a bit of research at local camera shops, labs, and on the
>web, before bothering you. Nevertheless, if there is some faq at
>photo.net or whatever, which addresses this topic but which I've not
>seen, please feel free to simply put me in contact with that.
>
>Mark Miller
> Berkeley, CA
>
>
><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: color slide -> B&W print |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Feb 04, 2004 Posts: 164
|
(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:52 pm
Post subject: Re: color slide -> B&W print [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Francis A. Miniter" <miniter.TakeThisOut@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3f57990e_4@news3.prserv.net...
(snipped "how to get B&W prints from color slides?")
> Hi Mark,
>
> I do this all the time. The slide is panchromatic in nature and prints
> directly to black and white paper without any difficulty. I generally
> try to use graded paper to avoid filtration issues. But you can get
> great effects with filtration. Your local lab may have been printing on
> to color paper, trying to imitate black and white. You need to have it
> printed on true black and white paper. The best way is to do it
> yourself with an enlarger and developing chemicals.
I'm not getting something here...
1. If I print a "slide" (a positive transparency) directly to B&W paper,
won't my print be a negative image? Is there a B&W reversal paper? How does
it work?
2. The slide is panchromatic, but the B&W paper (other than Panalure) is
not. Won't the colors of the slide have the same (actually complementary or
directly opposite on the color wheel) effect as printing a color neg on B&W
paper?
I agree with the second half of your statement: trying to imitate B&W on
color paper does not look the same as a true B&W print; IMHO, it doesn't
have the contrast or "crispness".
Thanks
Ken Hart<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: color slide -> B&W print |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jun 23, 2003 Posts: 82
|
(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:34 am
Post subject: Re: color slide -> B&W print [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
My apologies, Ken. I goofed. That's what I get for dashing off an
answer from the office.
You are right that I first make an internegative. I use 4x5 TMX or TMY,
which I place on the easel under the enlarger, after taking an incident
light meter reading from the easel. I expose to make a 3x4.5 inch
image, develop and print from a 4x5 enlarger.
Francis A. Miniter
Ken Hart wrote:
>I'm not getting something here...
>1. If I print a "slide" (a positive transparency) directly to B&W paper,
>won't my print be a negative image? Is there a B&W reversal paper? How does
>it work?
>2. The slide is panchromatic, but the B&W paper (other than Panalure) is
>not. Won't the colors of the slide have the same (actually complementary or
>directly opposite on the color wheel) effect as printing a color neg on B&W
>paper?
>
>I agree with the second half of your statement: trying to imitate B&W on
>color paper does not look the same as a true B&W print; IMHO, it doesn't
>have the contrast or "crispness".
>
>Thanks
>Ken Hart
>
>
>
><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: color slide -> B&W print |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jun 23, 2003 Posts: 82
|
(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:35 am
Post subject: Re: color slide -> B&W print [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
My apologies, Ken. I goofed. That's what I get for dashing off an
answer from the office.
You are right that I first make an internegative. I use 4x5 TMX or TMY,
which I place on the easel under the enlarger, after taking an incident
light meter reading from the easel. I expose to make a 3x4.5 inch
image, develop and print from a 4x5 enlarger.
Francis A. Miniter
Ken Hart wrote:
>I'm not getting something here...
>1. If I print a "slide" (a positive transparency) directly to B&W paper,
>won't my print be a negative image? Is there a B&W reversal paper? How does
>it work?
>2. The slide is panchromatic, but the B&W paper (other than Panalure) is
>not. Won't the colors of the slide have the same (actually complementary or
>directly opposite on the color wheel) effect as printing a color neg on B&W
>paper?
>
>I agree with the second half of your statement: trying to imitate B&W on
>color paper does not look the same as a true B&W print; IMHO, it doesn't
>have the contrast or "crispness".
>
>Thanks
>Ken Hart
>
>
>
><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: color slide -> B&W print |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Jul 23, 2003 Posts: 80
|
(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: color slide -> B&W print [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Mark,
As others have suggested, scan your slides, convert them to black and white
in Photoshop. Prepare your file and have them printed on a Lightjet5000.
There is a lab in San Jose called Calypso Imaging. They are the least
expensive place to have images printed on a high quality digital printer.
They charge by the size of the paper and you can gang images to bring the
cost down. I had some black and white prints made there recently for a
client and I was surprised how well they came out. It's always better to
shoot in black and white and print it yourself, if you know how.
"mark miller" <mamiller.TakeThisOut@cs.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0309041112090.27558-100000@abyss.cs.uchicago.edu...
> Being a climber who takes pictures (much) more than a photographer who
> climbs, I've always taken slide film for slide shows, color prints,
> etc. Yet when I was putting together a little website for a trip I
> took to Mt McKinley earlier this summer
>
(http://people.cs.uchicago.edu/~mamiller/docs/journal/2003/06/01-20-denali),
> I played with some of the images in Photoshop, including making some of
> them b&w. I found these far more dramatic and exciting. In the future
> I'm far more likely to take b&w.
>
> But for now, I want to make, if possible, some b&w prints of my slides.
> I asked my local custom lab (Ziba, in Berkeley, CA) to do this, and
> they did, but it has a purplish tint, which I found, afterward, is a
> natural failing of the process - basically printing through a magenta
> filter onto regular color paper. From talking to others, I think what
> I want, in order to get blacks which are truly neutral, is for the
> print to be on silver process paper? or fiber paper? But apparently a
> different process is used for that? One which not many labs do,
> perhaps, according to my research?
>
> In the best of all possible worlds I would be able to make such a (true
> b&w) print from a digital image, which I could play with in Photoshop
> after having scanned in (I'm so new to all this: is a 3k dpi drum scan
> of a 35mm slide generally sufficient for a 16"x20" if I'm not a clarity
> freak)
>
> That's the background. My central questions are, I believe
>
> -What process should I ask for to get a true black and white print
> from a) a digital image, and/ or b) a color slide.
>
> -Given I've not had luck in this area talking to some of the custom
> labs in my area, can someone recommend a lab (ideally in in the SF
> Bay Area, though not exclusively) which can do this
>
> -Does anyone have rough ideas on what one might expect to pay for such
> prints (at 16"x20")?
>
> -Is a 3k dpi drum scan of a 35mm slide generally sufficient for a
> 16"x20" if I'm not a clarity freak?
>
> Thanks for any information on this topic. Please believe that I have I
> have done a bit of research at local camera shops, labs, and on the
> web, before bothering you. Nevertheless, if there is some faq at
> photo.net or whatever, which addresses this topic but which I've not
> seen, please feel free to simply put me in contact with that.
>
> Mark Miller
> Berkeley, CA
><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: color slide -> B&W print |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
|
You can post new topics in this forum You can reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|