basic edits done to photographs?

gmr2048 <gmr2048.TakeThisOut@nuthin.com> writes:

 > I'm new to photography/digital imaging, so forgive me if this is very
 > basic....
 >
 > I reciently submitted for critique an picture I took. The one comment
 > so far said it was good, but that I should "Clean it up a little bit
 > to get cleaner composition".
 >
 > For those interested, you should be able to see the picture here:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://makeashorterlink.com/?H16F32FF7</font" target="_blank">http://makeashorterlink.com/?H16F32FF7</font</a>>

I took a look at the photo, and I'm confused by the comment: clean it up to
get cleaner composition is not all that helpful, I'm sorry to say. If I
were in a conversation with that person, I'd ask for specifics. If she or
he were able to point out specifics about what I could do to improve the
photo or about what I had done wrong, then I would listen carefully and
take the advice with me on the next shooting assignment. If the person
could not tell me what she or he meant, then I'd listen politely but
realize I could not learn from this person.

My comments are that I'm not sure what the subject of the photo is; I'm
left wondering what I'm supposed to look at within the frame and what I'm
supposed to get out of it. My eyes are led off in various directions with
no real focus to my attention. This may be what the commenter is saying --
the composition needs to focus our attention on the subject of the photo.

There is a piece of wood near the center which is light in color; being in
the center and light, it seems to attract my eye first, but it point up to
the right toward nothing in the frame, so then I look at the orange-ish
leaf under the wood, but that has a white root or straw accross it which
leads me off to the right where it disappears under a nice read seed pod
which points up to the left and leads me back to the light-colored wood. So
I go around in a circle, with some distracting shapes and objects that
disappear on the left side of the frame. I would describe the image as a
photograph of clutter with no clear object of interest.

I don't think any of this can be fixed with Photoshop, and I'm not
convinced that is what the original comment speaks to (although it's far
from clear what _is_ meant).

You clearly have an eye for color. The rose seed pod has picked up the
color from the leaf; there are hints of that shade in the grains of
sand. The problem appears to be that there is either too sharp a focus on
the objects without having colors be the subject of the photo or there is
too much clutter in the objects which are the subject, with the colors
being a happenstance.

Have fun.
--
Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip@
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.PhilipStripling.com/" target="_blank">http://www.PhilipStripling.com/</a> | my domain is read daily.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: basic edits done to photographs? 

gmr2048 wrote:

 > I'm new to photography/digital imaging, so forgive me if this is very
 > basic....

[snip]

I sent you a "remake" of your pic, and told you what I did. Hope it helps.

Fred

--
Definition of Terror: A female Klingon with PMS.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: basic edits done to photographs? 

Thanks for the comments/suggestions, all.

I think I mistook the original critique as meaning clean up the
picture technically. I think they meant make the composition less
cluttered. Thanks for making that apparent.

Phil, I did take the picture mainly because of the colors. Everything
around it was bland/tan/sand colored, and I saw this little burst of
color. I'll have to work on finding bursts of color in simpler forms.
Thank you.

Fred, thanks for taking the time to remake my pic. I really appreciate
it. I have not yet received a copy via email (nor did I see a copy on
the photo.net site). If you still have a copy, could you try a resend?
My email address is gmr2048 at yahoo dot com. Thanks again!

-gary



On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:48:02 -0700 (PDT), "Fred A. Miller"
<fmiller.RemoveThis@twcny.rr.com> wrote:

 >gmr2048 wrote:
 >
  >> I'm new to photography/digital imaging, so forgive me if this is very
  >> basic....
 >
 >[snip]
 >
 >I sent you a "remake" of your pic, and told you what I did. Hope it helps.
 >
 >Fred<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: basic edits done to photographs? 

gmr2048 <gmr2048.DeleteThis@nuthin.com> writes:

 > Phil, I did take the picture mainly because of the colors. Everything
 > around it was bland/tan/sand colored, and I saw this little burst of
 > color. I'll have to work on finding bursts of color in simpler forms.

I wouldn't work on finding simpler things, I'd work on that
composition. It's long gone now, but when you come across a similar burst
of color, take a ton of photos with different compositions, then look at
each image and see what works. If you're working with nature, you're going
to take what nature gives you and make it work for you.

Good luck, have fun, and take thousands of photos.
--
Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip@
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.PhilipStripling.com/" target="_blank">http://www.PhilipStripling.com/</a> | my domain is read daily.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: basic edits done to photographs? 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:00:50 -0700 (PDT), Phil Stripling
<phil_stripling RemoveThis @cieux.zzn.com> wrote:

 >gmr2048 <gmr2048 RemoveThis @nuthin.com> writes:
 >
  >> I'm new to photography/digital imaging, so forgive me if this is very
  >> basic....
  >>
  >> I reciently submitted for critique an picture I took. The one comment
  >> so far said it was good, but that I should "Clean it up a little bit
  >> to get cleaner composition".
  >>
  >> For those interested, you should be able to see the picture here:
<font color=green>  >> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://makeashorterlink.com/?H16F32FF7</font" target="_blank">http://makeashorterlink.com/?H16F32FF7</font</a>>
 >
 >I took a look at the photo, and I'm confused by the comment: clean it up to
 >get cleaner composition is not all that helpful,

I agree... from my perspective, that composition is flawed. There's no
way to simply "clean it up."

It's the arrangement of elements that's the problem, not some specs on
the image, not the contrast.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: basic edits done to photographs? 

Kibo informs me that -xiray- <do_not DeleteThis @e-mail.me> stated that:

 >On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:00:50 -0700 (PDT), Phil Stripling
 ><phil_stripling DeleteThis @cieux.zzn.com> wrote:
 >
  >>gmr2048 <gmr2048 DeleteThis @nuthin.com> writes:
  >>
   >>> I'm new to photography/digital imaging, so forgive me if this is very
   >>> basic....
   >>>
   >>> I reciently submitted for critique an picture I took. The one comment
   >>> so far said it was good, but that I should "Clean it up a little bit
   >>> to get cleaner composition".
   >>>
   >>> For those interested, you should be able to see the picture here:
<font color=brown>   >>> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://makeashorterlink.com/?H16F32FF7</font" target="_blank">http://makeashorterlink.com/?H16F32FF7</font</a>>
  >>
  >>I took a look at the photo, and I'm confused by the comment: clean it up to
  >>get cleaner composition is not all that helpful,
 >
 >I agree... from my perspective, that composition is flawed. There's no
 >way to simply "clean it up."
 >
 >It's the arrangement of elements that's the problem, not some specs on
 >the image, not the contrast.

Yep, agreed. Nice colours, nice texture, but too cluttered. I would've
been awfully tempted to move things around before shooting.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: basic edits done to photographs? 

Hi!

I also took a look , here some comments:

a) You can get also very good comments in photosig <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.photosig.com.," target="_blank">http://www.photosig.com.,</a>
if the comments here may not be enough.

b) You asked about sharpening: This is the final step of the photo-workflow.
Sharpen should be done only once and only for a given output media. In your
case you have three different samples, so for the best results you may need
to sharpen each of them.

c) Composition: I think there too many elements in your picture. The
attention goes from the left to the right and get more and more complex. The
variety of small elements without a clear direction in the right side makes
the picture a little bit confusing.

The main composition line cross the picture and is more or less horizontal.
Alternatively, you could have choosen to build a diagonal ending the corners
by about 1/3 (remember the rules of the thirds, golden composition rule,
etc). This would have given a little more dynamic.

c) Interesting texture in the background with sand, but here sharpness is
missing.

d) Summary, less elements (less is more..) clear lines and composition and a
little bit more sharpness.

Have fun!

Alex

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.alex-images.de" target="_blank">http://www.alex-images.de</a>




"Phil Stripling" <phil_stripling RemoveThis @cieux.zzn.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3qoepxuldp.fsf@shell4.tdl.com...
 > gmr2048 <gmr2048 RemoveThis @nuthin.com> writes:
 >
  > > I'm new to photography/digital imaging, so forgive me if this is very
  > > basic....
  > >
  > > I reciently submitted for critique an picture I took. The one comment
  > > so far said it was good, but that I should "Clean it up a little bit
  > > to get cleaner composition".
  > >
  > > For those interested, you should be able to see the picture here:
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://makeashorterlink.com/?H16F32FF7</font" target="_blank">http://makeashorterlink.com/?H16F32FF7</font</a>>
 >
 > I took a look at the photo, and I'm confused by the comment: clean it up
to
 > get cleaner composition is not all that helpful, I'm sorry to say. If I
 > were in a conversation with that person, I'd ask for specifics. If she or
 > he were able to point out specifics about what I could do to improve the
 > photo or about what I had done wrong, then I would listen carefully and
 > take the advice with me on the next shooting assignment. If the person
 > could not tell me what she or he meant, then I'd listen politely but
 > realize I could not learn from this person.
 >
 > My comments are that I'm not sure what the subject of the photo is; I'm
 > left wondering what I'm supposed to look at within the frame and what I'm
 > supposed to get out of it. My eyes are led off in various directions with
 > no real focus to my attention. This may be what the commenter is saying --
 > the composition needs to focus our attention on the subject of the photo.
 >
 > There is a piece of wood near the center which is light in color; being in
 > the center and light, it seems to attract my eye first, but it point up to
 > the right toward nothing in the frame, so then I look at the orange-ish
 > leaf under the wood, but that has a white root or straw accross it which
 > leads me off to the right where it disappears under a nice read seed pod
 > which points up to the left and leads me back to the light-colored wood.
So
 > I go around in a circle, with some distracting shapes and objects that
 > disappear on the left side of the frame. I would describe the image as a
 > photograph of clutter with no clear object of interest.
 >
 > I don't think any of this can be fixed with Photoshop, and I'm not
 > convinced that is what the original comment speaks to (although it's far
 > from clear what _is_ meant).
 >
 > You clearly have an eye for color. The rose seed pod has picked up the
 > color from the leaf; there are hints of that shade in the grains of
 > sand. The problem appears to be that there is either too sharp a focus on
 > the objects without having colors be the subject of the photo or there is
 > too much clutter in the objects which are the subject, with the colors
 > being a happenstance.
 >
 > Have fun.
 > --
 > Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
 > Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip@
 > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.PhilipStripling.com/" target="_blank">http://www.PhilipStripling.com/</a> | my domain is read daily.
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: basic edits done to photographs? 

I agree with the poster that the image has too many elements.
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ekuk.fsnet.co.uk/sand.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.ekuk.fsnet.co.uk/sand.jpg</a>
shows what I mean. This was done quickly in PhotoShop, but it is always
best to do the tidy-up at the location if that is possible.

Dennis


"Alex Timaios" <alex.timaios.RemoveThis@NOSPAMweb.de> wrote in message
news:c7iobn$42d$2@online.de...
 > Hi!
 >
 > I also took a look , here some comments:
 >
 > a) You can get also very good comments in photosig
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.photosig.com.," target="_blank">http://www.photosig.com.,</a>
 > if the comments here may not be enough.
 >
 > b) You asked about sharpening: This is the final step of the
photo-workflow.
 > Sharpen should be done only once and only for a given output media. In
your
 > case you have three different samples, so for the best results you may
need
 > to sharpen each of them.
 >
 > c) Composition: I think there too many elements in your picture. The
 > attention goes from the left to the right and get more and more complex.
The
 > variety of small elements without a clear direction in the right side
makes
 > the picture a little bit confusing.
 >
 > The main composition line cross the picture and is more or less
horizontal.
 > Alternatively, you could have choosen to build a diagonal ending the
corners
 > by about 1/3 (remember the rules of the thirds, golden composition rule,
 > etc). This would have given a little more dynamic.
 >
 > c) Interesting texture in the background with sand, but here sharpness is
 > missing.
 >
 > d) Summary, less elements (less is more..) clear lines and composition and
a
 > little bit more sharpness.
 >
 > Have fun!
 >
 > Alex
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.alex-images.de</font" target="_blank">http://www.alex-images.de</font</a>>
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > "Phil Stripling" <phil_stripling.RemoveThis@cieux.zzn.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
 > news:3qoepxuldp.fsf@shell4.tdl.com...
  > > gmr2048 <gmr2048.RemoveThis@nuthin.com> writes:
  > >
   > > > I'm new to photography/digital imaging, so forgive me if this is very
   > > > basic....
   > > >
   > > > I reciently submitted for critique an picture I took. The one comment
   > > > so far said it was good, but that I should "Clean it up a little bit
   > > > to get cleaner composition".
   > > >
   > > > For those interested, you should be able to see the picture here:
<font color=brown>   > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://makeashorterlink.com/?H16F32FF7</font" target="_blank">http://makeashorterlink.com/?H16F32FF7</font</a>>
  > >
  > > I took a look at the photo, and I'm confused by the comment: clean it up
 > to
  > > get cleaner composition is not all that helpful, I'm sorry to say. If I
  > > were in a conversation with that person, I'd ask for specifics. If she
or
  > > he were able to point out specifics about what I could do to improve the
  > > photo or about what I had done wrong, then I would listen carefully and
  > > take the advice with me on the next shooting assignment. If the person
  > > could not tell me what she or he meant, then I'd listen politely but
  > > realize I could not learn from this person.
  > >
  > > My comments are that I'm not sure what the subject of the photo is; I'm
  > > left wondering what I'm supposed to look at within the frame and what
I'm
  > > supposed to get out of it. My eyes are led off in various directions
with
  > > no real focus to my attention. This may be what the commenter is
saying --
  > > the composition needs to focus our attention on the subject of the
photo.
  > >
  > > There is a piece of wood near the center which is light in color; being
in
  > > the center and light, it seems to attract my eye first, but it point up
to
  > > the right toward nothing in the frame, so then I look at the orange-ish
  > > leaf under the wood, but that has a white root or straw accross it which
  > > leads me off to the right where it disappears under a nice read seed pod
  > > which points up to the left and leads me back to the light-colored wood.
 > So
  > > I go around in a circle, with some distracting shapes and objects that
  > > disappear on the left side of the frame. I would describe the image as a
  > > photograph of clutter with no clear object of interest.
  > >
  > > I don't think any of this can be fixed with Photoshop, and I'm not
  > > convinced that is what the original comment speaks to (although it's far
  > > from clear what _is_ meant).
  > >
  > > You clearly have an eye for color. The rose seed pod has picked up the
  > > color from the leaf; there are hints of that shade in the grains of
  > > sand. The problem appears to be that there is either too sharp a focus
on
  > > the objects without having colors be the subject of the photo or there
is
  > > too much clutter in the objects which are the subject, with the colors
  > > being a happenstance.
  > >
  > > Have fun.
  > > --
  > > Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is
presumed
  > > Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip@
  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.PhilipStripling.com/" target="_blank">http://www.PhilipStripling.com/</a> | my domain is read daily.
  > >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: basic edits done to photographs? 

Excellent! Thank you Dennis. I love the comparison image. Makes me mad
that I didn't think to clean up the subject when I took the picture.
The "clean" version is definitely much better looking. Thanks again
for taking the time!

-gary

On Mon, 10 May 2004 11:53:03 -0700 (PDT), "Dennis Bradley"
<dennis.DeleteThis@no_spam_please_dbradley.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

 >I agree with the poster that the image has too many elements.
 >http://www.ekuk.fsnet.co.uk/sand.jpg
 >shows what I mean. This was done quickly in PhotoShop, but it is always
 >best to do the tidy-up at the location if that is possible.
 >
 >Dennis
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: basic edits done to photographs? 

I often made the same mistake, but less so nowadays. I have tried to force
myself to look carefully at what is in the frame, but sometimes in the
excitement of the shoot, I forget.

I have a few friends who even keep scissors and string in their camera bag
to cut away obscuring grass and foliage, or to tie back twigs and branches
to keep them from intruding in the picture. Their work is usually
excellent, and shows it pays to take the care to get it right. Not sure if
I have the patience required for that sort of dedication

Dennis

"gmr2048" <gmr2048 DeleteThis @nuthin.com> wrote in message
news:krk1a09dqeqias3669e65pb6c2rl3vsc9t@4ax.com...
 > Excellent! Thank you Dennis. I love the comparison image. Makes me mad
 > that I didn't think to clean up the subject when I took the picture.
 > The "clean" version is definitely much better looking. Thanks again
 > for taking the time!
 >
 > -gary
 >
 > On Mon, 10 May 2004 11:53:03 -0700 (PDT), "Dennis Bradley"
 > <dennis DeleteThis @no_spam_please_dbradley.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
 >
  > >I agree with the poster that the image has too many elements.
  > >http://www.ekuk.fsnet.co.uk/sand.jpg
  > >shows what I mean. This was done quickly in PhotoShop, but it is always
  > >best to do the tidy-up at the location if that is possible.
  > >
  > >Dennis
  > >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: basic edits done to photographs? 

That photo is a good try...and a near miss. By centering it you get stasis
where the items suggest the opposite. Try cropping most of the sand away.
Try tilting the image. You might want to increase contrast...an artistic
decision that is only yours to make. It does look like it needs
sharpening...but other than that its hard to judge from a JPG.

Comments in this forum tend towards how to take a photo...more important is
why to take a photo.
 >> Stay informed about: basic edits done to photographs?