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Since: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:39 pm
Post subject: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera
Archived from groups: rec>photo>equipment>medium-format (more info?)
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I have come across a Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding 6x9 camera.
The bellows has no leak, and the camera itself is pretty clean and
functional, considering the value ($25-45?) so I plan on buying a roll
of 120 just for fun (only 8 shots per roll!) I am interested in the
idea of a medium format camera can can literally fit in a pocket. The
lens is Nettar-Anastigmat (hence "Nettar") with speeds 27-75
My question is about the focus mechanism -- I understand that focusing
is accomplished by the turning lens element ring which is marked from 7
ft to infinity. If I open up the camera back, and open the aperture all
the way, and place the back of the camera to my eye (so my eye is where
the film would be, roughly) and looking across my living room, then I
assume that turning the focus ring should result in a perceptible
change in focus until at some point the image becomes clear & focused
-- am I right? Well, it doesn't. Turning the focus ring does indeed
make it go forward and backward, but I can't see a difference while
looking through the back of the camera (but my eyes aren't great
either)
The lens is relatively clean (there is some v. faint clouding -- did
lens fungus affect 68 year old uncoated lenses?)
Thanks for any advice or info
CHeers |
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Since: Jun 03, 2004
Posts: 1869
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:59 am
Post subject: Re: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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thelasian wrote:
> I am interested in the
> idea of a medium format camera can can literally fit in a pocket.
Shoot it at f11-f22 and it should perform pretty well.
>
> If I open up the camera back, and open the aperture all
> the way, and place the back of the camera to my eye (so my eye is where
> the film would be, roughly) and looking across my living room, then I
> assume that turning the focus ring should result in a perceptible
> change in focus until at some point the image becomes clear & focused
> -- am I right?
You're not right, that isn't how it works. Try putting a piece of scotch
tape across the film gate and use this as a "ground glass" and you should
be able to see a focused image on the frosted side of the tape.
>
> The lens is relatively clean (there is some v. faint clouding -- did
> lens fungus affect 68 year old uncoated lenses?)
No but they do get fogged from lubricant and this can seriously affect
contrast. Maybe after you see if it works OK, remove the front lens
element, clean each side of each element then reassemble. You can then
check the focus again via the scotch tape method to see if it's put back
together right as far as the infinity stop. this can make a huge difference
in lens performance, Also you should shade the lens as best you can or at
least make sure the sun isn't in the frame or shining on the front
element! 
--
Stacey<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Nov 30, 2004
Posts: 415
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:59 am
Post subject: Re: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"thelasian" <thelasian.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109990352.657053.25220@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> My question is about the focus mechanism -- I understand that focusing
> is accomplished by the turning lens element ring which is marked from 7
> ft to infinity. If I open up the camera back, and open the aperture all
> the way, and place the back of the camera to my eye (so my eye is where
> the film would be, roughly) and looking across my living room, then I
> assume that turning the focus ring should result in a perceptible
> change in focus until at some point the image becomes clear & focused
> -- am I right? Well, it doesn't.
If you could focus that way (aerial focus) you would be so blessed. But
you can't.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera |
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External
Since: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Stacey wrote:
> thelasian wrote:
>
> > I am interested in the
> > idea of a medium format camera can can literally fit in a pocket.
>
> Shoot it at f11-f22 and it should perform pretty well.
>
> >
> > If I open up the camera back, and open the aperture all
> > the way, and place the back of the camera to my eye (so my eye is
where
> > the film would be, roughly) and looking across my living room, then
I
> > assume that turning the focus ring should result in a perceptible
> > change in focus until at some point the image becomes clear &
focused
> > -- am I right?
>
> You're not right, that isn't how it works. Try putting a piece of
scotch
> tape across the film gate and use this as a "ground glass" and you
should
> be able to see a focused image on the frosted side of the tape.
>
> >
> > The lens is relatively clean (there is some v. faint clouding --
did
> > lens fungus affect 68 year old uncoated lenses?)
>
> No but they do get fogged from lubricant and this can seriously
affect
> contrast. Maybe after you see if it works OK, remove the front lens
> element, clean each side of each element then reassemble. You can
then
> check the focus again via the scotch tape method to see if it's put
back
> together right as far as the infinity stop. this can make a huge
difference
> in lens performance, Also you should shade the lens as best you can
or at
> least make sure the sun isn't in the frame or shining on the front
> element!
>
>
> --
>
> Stacey
Thanks! I tried the scotch tape thing and yes it does seem to focus.
The stuff on the lens looks almost like a light foggy-ness or steam. I
took off the front lens and cleaned it but its still there -- I guess
its on the inside of another lens element, where the shutter is. I also
noticed some rust on the shutter, but it doesn't hang-up. Am I right
that taking apart and cleaning the rest of the lens is not do-able? I
think there are four notches on a ring around the inside-side of the
lens -- I guess that's for some sort of special spanner?
This camera would really be neat if it works. I took it out today and
shot two roles of 100 and two roles of 400 film at various settings. I
think the 100 with 1/75s and f/22 will come out if anything. I'll dry
to develop the film tomorrow. I am also not sure how many times I
should have turned the film advance knob so I guess I'll have some
double-exposures. If it works I'll have to find a cable release too...<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera |
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Since: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Wow you're a wealth of info!
A knurled edge huh? Hmmm. There's the retaining ring with the 4 notches
which I will not remove) on the outside, and inside that ring (mounted
flush) there's something looks like a short cone with threading on the
inside, then there's a washer (looks like a wire bent like a circle)
and then there's the lens. I don't see much to grip ? >> Stay informed about: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera |
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Since: Jun 03, 2004
Posts: 1869
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:40 am
Post subject: Re: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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thelasian wrote:
>
> Am I right
> that taking apart and cleaning the rest of the lens is not do-able?
The easiest way is to remove the rear element from inside the camera and
clean the backside of the second front element through the open shutter,
the second front element is usually REAL tight to keep it from unscrewing
from the shutter while focusing.
> I
> think there are four notches on a ring around the inside-side of the
> lens -- I guess that's for some sort of special spanner?
Usually the rear element just has a knurled edge to grip and it unscrews
fairly easily. That 4 notch deal sounds like the retaining ring for the
whole shutter to the lens board, DON'T remove that one!
>
> This camera would really be neat if it works. I took it out today and
> shot two roles of 100 and two roles of 400 film at various settings. I
> think the 100 with 1/75s and f/22 will come out if anything. I'll dry
> to develop the film tomorrow. I am also not sure how many times I
> should have turned the film advance knob so I guess I'll have some
> double-exposures.
Use the red window on the back, It will show each number as you advance the
film and no, it won't fog the film.
> If it works I'll have to find a cable release too...
It should work OK. The tessar lens versions are sharper at the edges and
IMHO the 6X4.5 and 6X6 folders work better than the 6X9's, flatter film
plane and especially the 6X4.5's have much sharper corners.
--
Stacey<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera |
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Since: Jun 03, 2004
Posts: 1869
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:40 am
Post subject: Re: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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thelasian wrote:
> Wow you're a wealth of info!
Well I've got about 40 different folders, maybe more? I stopped
counting!
>
> A knurled edge huh? Hmmm. There's the retaining ring with the 4 notches
> which I will not remove) on the outside, and inside that ring (mounted
> flush) there's something looks like a short cone with threading on the
> inside, then there's a washer (looks like a wire bent like a circle)
> and then there's the lens. I don't see much to grip ?
Hmm the cheaper lenses might not be made the same way as I'm used to seeing
with the tessar models. The outside ring isn't it. You might try this
trick. I use an old piece of bicycle inner tube as a "grip" and try to spin
the inner part of this cone/lens element with your fingertips and see if it
unscrews. I bet that "cone" in the lens retaining ring. The only novar
folder I have is a 50mm version on a 35mm camera.
I -have- seen some cheap lenses where they "crush" the edges over to mount
them and the only way then is to unscrew the second front element to get to
the glass surfaces. The problem there is they sometimes glue these or
otherwise tighten them super tight and trying to grip them tight enough to
unscrew them from the shutter without crushing the part that's threaded
(then the front focusing element won't screw back in) is tough.
--
Stacey<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera |
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Since: Nov 30, 2004
Posts: 415
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:34 am
Post subject: Re: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"thelasian" <thelasian DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110091638.202524.164750@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Wow you're a wealth of info!
>
> A knurled edge huh? Hmmm. There's the retaining ring with the 4 notches
> which I will not remove) on the outside, and inside that ring (mounted
> flush) there's something looks like a short cone with threading on the
> inside, then there's a washer (looks like a wire bent like a circle)
> and then there's the lens. I don't see much to grip ?
I will check mine later, but I think to get at the rear inside lenses your
model requires removal of the 4-impression ring, and possibly the whole lens
from the camera.
By the way, surf the following site for lots of information on your camera.
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.marriottworld.com/index.htm" target="_blank">http://www.marriottworld.com/index.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera |
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Since: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 104
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:36 am
Post subject: Re: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Stacey <fotocord RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<38ssliF5srfk3U1 RemoveThis @individual.net>...
> No but they do get fogged from lubricant and this can seriously affect
> contrast.
I agree with the second part of your statement. But UNcoated lenses do
suffer from fungus, too. I have seen more than one of them with really
bad fungus. The good news is that with uncoated lenses you can really
rub hard with vinegar (even concentrated) since there is no risk of
damaging the coating.
Winfried<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera |
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Since: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 104
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:38 am
Post subject: Re: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"thelasian" <thelasian.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<1109990352.657053.25220.TakeThisOut@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>...
> My question is about the focus mechanism -- I understand that focusing
> is accomplished by the turning lens element ring which is marked from 7
> ft to infinity. If I open up the camera back, and open the aperture all
> the way, and place the back of the camera to my eye (so my eye is where
> the film would be, roughly) and looking across my living room, then I
> assume that turning the focus ring should result in a perceptible
> change in focus until at some point the image becomes clear & focused
> -- am I right? Well, it doesn't.
The lens of your eye is NOT a film plane. It's just contrary: with
your eye in the focus plane (and with your eye focussed at infinity)
you should not be able to see any details of the image. Placing a
focussing screen and placing an imaging system (like your eye) in the
film plane are quite different things.
Winfried<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera |
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Since: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 104
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:42 am
Post subject: Re: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"thelasian" <thelasian DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<1110091638.202524.164750 DeleteThis @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>...
> Wow you're a wealth of info!
>
> A knurled edge huh? Hmmm. There's the retaining ring with the 4 notches
> which I will not remove) on the outside, and inside that ring (mounted
> flush) there's something looks like a short cone with threading on the
> inside, then there's a washer (looks like a wire bent like a circle)
> and then there's the lens.
Some simple lenses were made like that, they use a springy ring to
hold the lens. Sometimes these springy rings are a nightmare to
remove. You can try to pry it off with a tiny screwdriver but there is
always risk of scratching the lens element.
Winfried<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera |
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Since: Jun 03, 2004
Posts: 1869
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Winfried Buechsenschuetz wrote:
> Stacey <fotocord RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:<38ssliF5srfk3U1 RemoveThis @individual.net>...
>
>> No but they do get fogged from lubricant and this can seriously affect
>> contrast.
>
> I agree with the second part of your statement. But UNcoated lenses do
> suffer from fungus, too. I have seen more than one of them with really
> bad fungus. The good news is that with uncoated lenses you can really
> rub hard with vinegar (even concentrated) since there is no risk of
> damaging the coating.
>
>
You're right, I guess what I should have said is the fungus doesn't ruin the
lens like it can with a coated one. I've bought some NASTY looking ones
that always cleaned right up.
--
Stacey<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera |
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External
Since: Jun 06, 2004
Posts: 761
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:40 am
Post subject: Re: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <3949pmF5ujs9kU1 DeleteThis @individual.net>,
Stacey <fotocord DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>Winfried Buechsenschuetz wrote:
>
>> Stacey <fotocord DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:<38ssliF5srfk3U1 DeleteThis @individual.net>...
>>
>>> No but they do get fogged from lubricant and this can seriously affect
>>> contrast.
>>
>> I agree with the second part of your statement. But UNcoated lenses do
>> suffer from fungus, too. I have seen more than one of them with really
>> bad fungus. The good news is that with uncoated lenses you can really
>> rub hard with vinegar (even concentrated) since there is no risk of
>> damaging the coating.
>>
>>
>
>You're right, I guess what I should have said is the fungus doesn't ruin the
>lens like it can with a coated one. I've bought some NASTY looking ones
>that always cleaned right up.
I bought an Agfa Record III with an Apotar (triplet lens), where the middle
element had fungus. I disassembled the lens and removed the fungus with
isopropyl alcohol, and while the lens now appears to work just fine, it's
noticable that the coating is missing where the fungus was. The glass wasn't
etched, but it's a bit weird to see the coating just stop over this patch.
Optically, it works about as well as you'd expect a triplet to work.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera |
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Since: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Stacey wrote:
> thelasian wrote:
>
> > Wow you're a wealth of info!
>
> Well I've got about 40 different folders, maybe more? I stopped
> counting!
>
> >
> > A knurled edge huh? Hmmm. There's the retaining ring with the 4
notches
> > which I will not remove) on the outside, and inside that ring
(mounted
> > flush) there's something looks like a short cone with threading on
the
> > inside, then there's a washer (looks like a wire bent like a
circle)
> > and then there's the lens. I don't see much to grip ?
>
> Hmm the cheaper lenses might not be made the same way as I'm used to
seeing
> with the tessar models. The outside ring isn't it. You might try this
> trick. I use an old piece of bicycle inner tube as a "grip" and try
to spin
> the inner part of this cone/lens element with your fingertips and see
if it
> unscrews.
Thanks again - I tried to use a piece of rubber (dishwashing gloves) to
get a grip on the cone/ring thing and it didn't budge. Not enough
friction.
Oh well. The camera works though. I shot a couple of rolls of ILFORD
125 BW film of a long, long city street, with the focus set on
infinity, shutter on 1/75 and f/22. Everything came out OK (the edges
are a bit fuzzy) but I still have to experiment with focusing on closer
items.
I turned the film advance knob 2 full times between each frame. That
was enough for the first few shots, but there was a real large gap on
the negative between the last few shots, so I guess I'll reduce the
film advance to just 1 turn of the knob after the 4th shot, so maybe I
can squeeze an extra shot on a roll.
I am still not real sure how the red window thing works -- does it show
how many shots are left/consumed? I have heard that opening it can
expose the film. True?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera |
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Since: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Zeiss Ikon Nettar 510/2 folding camera [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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