first TLR, very cheap

whitewave wrote:

 > I'm looking for a cheap tlr 6x6 twin lenses camera. I've read a lot
 > about Yashica 124, but I would like to know your comments on these
 > models:
 >
 > - flexaret VII
 > - Minolta Autocord
 > - Ricoh 66
 > - Yashica D
 > - Yashica 635
 >


IMHO the Minolta Autocord is far better than a Yashica and in some ways
better than many of the rollei models.

--

Stacey<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: first TLR, very cheap 

You should also add a Yashica LM or EM with the better four element lens to
your list. They are going for about $50 on ebay currently. For the price
they take great pictures.
"whitewave" <marcob81NOSPAM.DeleteThis@tiscali.it> wrote in message
news:ke6c50di1keacnt6onbbs5i0ahje94mobh@4ax.com...
 > I'm looking for a cheap tlr 6x6 twin lenses camera. I've read a lot
 > about Yashica 124, but I would like to know your comments on these
 > models:
 >
 > - flexaret VII
 > - Minolta Autocord
 > - Ricoh 66
 > - Yashica D
 > - Yashica 635
 >
 > Wich have the best lens? Wich is the more reliable?
 >
 > Thanks a lot.
 >
 > .....................................
 > Marco Baldovin
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.whitewave.it</font" target="_blank">www.whitewave.it</font</a>><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: first TLR, very cheap 

Yashicas: the D and 635 are essentially the same camera, with 635 having
the added feature of using 35 mm film. Most examples today no longer have
the 35 mm adapter hardware.

Yashica offer 2 main lenses, the Yashikor and Yashinon. The Yashikor is a 3
element design that is good at the center and soft at the edges unless
stopped down. The Yashinon is a 4 element design with better edge
sharpness.

Almost all Ds and 635s were made with Yashikor lenses - only the last were
made with the Yashinon. All Yashicamats, 12, and 24 use the Yashinon.

The Yashicamat family are Rolleiflex-like - focus knob on the left, film
advance on the right. Some consider these to be three handed cameras (hold,
focus, film advance) or require a tripod. The D and 635 are more easily
operated without a tripod because the focus and film advance are on the same
side of the camera.

Reliability - the last Yashicamats have plastic film transport gears, while
earlier ones had metal gears and should be more robust. I don't know when
the change was implemented - perhaps someone else inhabiting the group can
provide more info here.

Bob in Las Vegas

"MATT WILLIAMS" <kauai82 DeleteThis @verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ibw5c.52016$rW6.34446@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
 > You should also add a Yashica LM or EM with the better four element lens
to
 > your list. They are going for about $50 on ebay currently. For the price
 > they take great pictures.
 > "whitewave" <marcob81NOSPAM DeleteThis @tiscali.it> wrote in message
 > news:ke6c50di1keacnt6onbbs5i0ahje94mobh@4ax.com...
  > > I'm looking for a cheap tlr 6x6 twin lenses camera. I've read a lot
  > > about Yashica 124, but I would like to know your comments on these
  > > models:
  > >
  > > - flexaret VII
  > > - Minolta Autocord
  > > - Ricoh 66
  > > - Yashica D
  > > - Yashica 635
  > >
  > > Wich have the best lens? Wich is the more reliable?
  > >
  > > Thanks a lot.
  > >
  > > .....................................
  > > Marco Baldovin
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.whitewave.it</font" target="_blank">www.whitewave.it</font</a>>
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: first TLR, very cheap 

In article <ke6c50di1keacnt6onbbs5i0ahje94mobh.DeleteThis@4ax.com>,
marcob81NOSPAM.DeleteThis@tiscali.it says...
 > I'm looking for a cheap tlr 6x6 twin lenses camera. I've read a lot
 > about Yashica 124, but I would like to know your comments on these
 > models:
 >
 > - flexaret VII

  ?? Anyone on the board ever *used* a Flexaret VII ?? Their
enlargers were excellant machines...way undervalued in the market. I
own a Meopta 80mm f5.6 enlarging lens which is a knockoff of an apo-
componon and an excellent lens. I've never handled one of their TLR's

 > - Minolta Autocord

  fine camera, but watch for vibration loosened lensboard, a common
but fixable problem.

 > - Ricoh 66
 
  never used one

 > - Yashica D

  just so-so

 > - Yashica 635

  so-so

 >
 > Wich have the best lens? Wich is the more reliable?
 >
 > Thanks a lot.
 >
 > .....................................
 > Marco Baldovin
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.whitewave.it</font" target="_blank">www.whitewave.it</font</a>>
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: first TLR, very cheap 

William Mutch <wcm1 RemoveThis @nospam.cornell.edu> wrote:
 > In article <ke6c50di1keacnt6onbbs5i0ahje94mobh RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
 > marcob81NOSPAM RemoveThis @tiscali.it says...
  >> I'm looking for a cheap tlr 6x6 twin lenses camera. I've read a lot
  >> about Yashica 124, but I would like to know your comments on these
  >> models:
  >>
  >> - flexaret VII
 >
 > ?? Anyone on the board ever *used* a Flexaret VII ?? Their
 > enlargers were excellant machines...way undervalued in the market. I
 > own a Meopta 80mm f5.6 enlarging lens which is a knockoff of an apo-
 > componon and an excellent lens. I've never handled one of their TLR's


I have a Va. Works just fine. I don't recall the changes between the Va
and the VII but I don't think they were that great.

Nick<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: first TLR, very cheap 

"William Mutch" <wcm1 RemoveThis @NOSPAM.cornell.edu> wrote in message >
  > > - Yashica D
 >
 > just so-so
 >
  > > - Yashica 635
 >
 > so-so
 >

I have a Yashica-A, with the Yashikor lenses. Can produce good images
stopped down to f/8 and smaller. Not Rollei quality, but can blow away 35mm
images, when shot at optimal settings.

Unfortunately, limited shutter speed means that the condidions under which
good images can be obtained at f/8 and smaller is a rather narrow range.
Still, can take good daylight shots, and that may be all you need initially.

If you can live with just a normal lens, the Rolleiflex can't be beaten for
simplicity and quality, but it's not available at an entry-level price.

See this link for an interesting exposition of the virtues of TLRs:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.foto.no/rolleiflex/Kapittel_2.html" target="_blank">http://www.foto.no/rolleiflex/Kapittel_2.html</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: first TLR, very cheap 

Re: the Ricoh 66, it was a clone of the rolleimagic - an attempt at an
automatic tlr. The idea went nowhere. Richoh did, however make some fairly
good tlrs which are, in my opinion, underpriced for the quality. They have
excellent tessar formula coated lenses and good internal baffles to control for
reflected light in the film chamber. I'm referring to the Diacord and the
Ricohmatic 225. I've used the Diacord L quite a bit and fount the results from
it to be sharp with excellent contrast.
(Note: I'm generally shooting around f8 to f11 give or take a stop.). I've
seen decent ones go for under $50.
 >> Stay informed about: first TLR, very cheap 

KFritch wrote:
 > (Note: I'm generally shooting around f8 to f11 give or take a stop.). I've
 > seen decent ones go for under $50.

Hi - followup question - how do the Zeiss Ikoflexes (Ia,b,c and IIa -
i.e. postwar ones) stand vis a vis quality and suggested stop range?

thanks!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: first TLR, very cheap 

William Mutch <wcm1.DeleteThis@nospam.cornell.edu> wrote:
  >>
  >> - flexaret VII
 >
 > ?? Anyone on the board ever *used* a Flexaret VII ?? Their
 > enlargers were excellant machines...way undervalued in the market. I
 > own a Meopta 80mm f5.6 enlarging lens which is a knockoff of an apo-
 > componon and an excellent lens. I've never handled one of their TLR's
 >
I have a Flexaret Standard, which is the red window version,
I like it a lot. The lens doesn't seem to be as contrasty as
the Xenar on my Rolleiflex, but it still seems to do a credible
job at f/5.6 and smaller. The Flexaret is better suited to
tripod use than the Rolleiflex. The flexaret seats very well
on my 3/8" thread manfrotto hex-plate, and the back opens from the
top, so that I can load film when the camera is on the tripod.

Peter.
--
pirwin.DeleteThis@ktb.net<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: first TLR, very cheap 

The Flexaret VII is a good camera if the shutter is operating properly. The
shutter is one of the few that the shutter blades rotate 180 degrees, this
means that when you cock the shutter the blades reverse and go through an
open cycle. In order to prevent exposing the film, the diaphragm blades
close all of the way down and act as a blind. Then when you trip the
shutter, just prior to the blades starting to open the diaphragm opens up to
the set value, blades open and then close. This shutter is tricky to keep
in adjustment and most repair shops have never seen a shutter like it. The
Flexaret V and VI have a standard design shutter that is more reliable. Be
aware that the coatings on the lenses are very soft and typical lens
cleaning fluid has been known to remove the coatings.

The Autocords are excellent cameras with only one common problem. The focus
helix grease is known to harden up. If someone forces the focus lever when
the grease has hardened, the lever breaks. So, if you get an Autocord make
sure that the focus helix has been relubed. The Autocord came with 2
different shutters, Citizen (Optiper) and Seikosha. Many prefer the Citizen
shutter, but I personally don't see much difference in them. I have had no
problems repairing either one. If you do find a camera that has had the
focus helix relubed, make sure that the camera has been recollimated. About
half of the Autocords that I service are out of focus due to being serviced
without the proper autocollimator test equipment. Most of the Autocords
appear to have a lens that should easily give 80 line per millimeter (much
sharper than the Yashica or even Rolleiflexes). One of the more dependable
cameras around (my preference for buying and repairing).

Ricoh 66 is an anomaly camera better left to a collector. The Ricohmatic
225 is very similar in design to the Autocord (same film path for maximum
film flatness, same excellent lens, similar focus helix but rarely does the
grease dry out, better baffling than the Autocord). One of the things that
I have noticed on the Ricoh camera is the ground glass appears to only show
about 92% of what will show up on film, whereas the Autocord is closer to
95%. The Ricoh Diacord is an equally good camera as the Ricohmatic 225 but
it does not have a crank film transport or auto cocking of the shutter. The
main thing to watch out for on a Diacord is the knob wind should only go in
one direction (about 2/3 of the Diacords/Dias that I repair have a broken
film wind knob). The Ricohmatic 225 is an excellent and durable camera with
the bonus of 35mm film capability, this is a very dependable camera. The
Ricoh/Ricohflex Diacord/Dia cameras are simpler quite dependable (manual
film cocking, knob wind).

The Yashica with a Yashinon lens typically is quite good. I have found
several examples where the focus moves as you adjust the diaphragm (this is
due to the diaphragm not being at the lens nodal point). The Yashicamat
124G last model is mostly plastic (front lens board cover is plastic) and
the wind mechanism is very cheap (sounds like a coffee grinder when you wind
it). The earlier Yashicamats (including the 12, 24 and 124) are well made.
My preference is to not work on a Yashica because of the frailness in the
whole camera design.

regards,
karl


"whitewave" <marcob81NOSPAM DeleteThis @tiscali.it> wrote in message
news:ke6c50di1keacnt6onbbs5i0ahje94mobh@4ax.com...
 > I'm looking for a cheap tlr 6x6 twin lenses camera. I've read a lot
 > about Yashica 124, but I would like to know your comments on these
 > models:
 >
 > - flexaret VII
 > - Minolta Autocord
 > - Ricoh 66
 > - Yashica D
 > - Yashica 635
 >
 > Wich have the best lens? Wich is the more reliable?
 >
 > Thanks a lot.
 >
 > .....................................
 > Marco Baldovin
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.whitewave.it</font" target="_blank">www.whitewave.it</font</a>><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: first TLR, very cheap 

Thanks for the informative post (I'm not the original poster). Do you have a
website for your repair services? I have a favorite Autocord that recently
died (shutter problems).

no_whence.TakeThisOut@spam_att.net

"kabkos" <nores1t8j3sp.TakeThisOut@amverizon.net> wrote in message
news:IaQ5c.58324$rW6.26543@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
 > The Flexaret VII is a good camera if the shutter is operating properly.
The
 > shutter is one of the few that the shutter blades rotate 180 degrees, this
 > means that when you cock the shutter the blades reverse and go through an
 > open cycle. In order to prevent exposing the film, the diaphragm blades
 > close all of the way down and act as a blind. Then when you trip the
 > shutter, just prior to the blades starting to open the diaphragm opens up
to
 > the set value, blades open and then close. This shutter is tricky to keep
 > in adjustment and most repair shops have never seen a shutter like it.
The
 > Flexaret V and VI have a standard design shutter that is more reliable.
Be
 > aware that the coatings on the lenses are very soft and typical lens
 > cleaning fluid has been known to remove the coatings.
 >
 > The Autocords are excellent cameras with only one common problem. The
focus
 > helix grease is known to harden up. If someone forces the focus lever
when
 > the grease has hardened, the lever breaks. So, if you get an Autocord
make
 > sure that the focus helix has been relubed. The Autocord came with 2
 > different shutters, Citizen (Optiper) and Seikosha. Many prefer the
Citizen
 > shutter, but I personally don't see much difference in them. I have had
no
 > problems repairing either one. If you do find a camera that has had the
 > focus helix relubed, make sure that the camera has been recollimated.
About
 > half of the Autocords that I service are out of focus due to being
serviced
 > without the proper autocollimator test equipment. Most of the Autocords
 > appear to have a lens that should easily give 80 line per millimeter (much
 > sharper than the Yashica or even Rolleiflexes). One of the more
dependable
 > cameras around (my preference for buying and repairing).
 >
 > Ricoh 66 is an anomaly camera better left to a collector. The Ricohmatic
 > 225 is very similar in design to the Autocord (same film path for maximum
 > film flatness, same excellent lens, similar focus helix but rarely does
the
 > grease dry out, better baffling than the Autocord). One of the things
that
 > I have noticed on the Ricoh camera is the ground glass appears to only
show
 > about 92% of what will show up on film, whereas the Autocord is closer to
 > 95%. The Ricoh Diacord is an equally good camera as the Ricohmatic 225
but
 > it does not have a crank film transport or auto cocking of the shutter.
The
 > main thing to watch out for on a Diacord is the knob wind should only go
in
 > one direction (about 2/3 of the Diacords/Dias that I repair have a broken
 > film wind knob). The Ricohmatic 225 is an excellent and durable camera
with
 > the bonus of 35mm film capability, this is a very dependable camera. The
 > Ricoh/Ricohflex Diacord/Dia cameras are simpler quite dependable (manual
 > film cocking, knob wind).
 >
 > The Yashica with a Yashinon lens typically is quite good. I have found
 > several examples where the focus moves as you adjust the diaphragm (this
is
 > due to the diaphragm not being at the lens nodal point). The Yashicamat
 > 124G last model is mostly plastic (front lens board cover is plastic) and
 > the wind mechanism is very cheap (sounds like a coffee grinder when you
wind
 > it). The earlier Yashicamats (including the 12, 24 and 124) are well
made.
 > My preference is to not work on a Yashica because of the frailness in the
 > whole camera design.
 >
 > regards,
 > karl
 >
 >
 > "whitewave" <marcob81NOSPAM.TakeThisOut@tiscali.it> wrote in message
 > news:ke6c50di1keacnt6onbbs5i0ahje94mobh@4ax.com...
  > > I'm looking for a cheap tlr 6x6 twin lenses camera. I've read a lot
  > > about Yashica 124, but I would like to know your comments on these
  > > models:
  > >
  > > - flexaret VII
  > > - Minolta Autocord
  > > - Ricoh 66
  > > - Yashica D
  > > - Yashica 635
  > >
  > > Wich have the best lens? Wich is the more reliable?
  > >
  > > Thanks a lot.
  > >
  > > .....................................
  > > Marco Baldovin
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.whitewave.it</font" target="_blank">www.whitewave.it</font</a>>
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: first TLR, very cheap 

 >Bob in Las Vegas


Thanks a lot, Bob. Your answer was very useful, in few words you
described all the yashica tlr models.
I understood it's important to look for a Tessar like lense, 4
lenses.
But it isn't true that EM or LM goes for 50$, the price for all
these camera from Yashica are very high on ebay.
This was the reason I'm looking for alternatives.


......................................
Marco Baldovin
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.whitewave.it" target="_blank">www.whitewave.it</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: first TLR, very cheap 

Il 16 Mar 2004 18:26:36 GMT, kfritch DeleteThis @aol.com (KFritch) ha scritto:

 >Re: the Ricoh 66, it was a clone of the rolleimagic - an attempt at an
 >automatic tlr. The idea went nowhere. Richoh did, however make some fairly
 >good tlrs which are, in my opinion, underpriced for the quality. They have
 >excellent tessar formula coated lenses and good internal baffles to control for
 >reflected light in the film chamber. I'm referring to the Diacord and the
 >Ricohmatic 225. I've used the Diacord L quite a bit and fount the results from
 >it to be sharp with excellent contrast.
 >(Note: I'm generally shooting around f8 to f11 give or take a stop.). I've
 >seen decent ones go for under $50.
 >
 >

Ok, thanks. After reading your reply I read on internet that it can't
be used in manual mode, as the Roleimagic. No! I dont' want anything
similar to these.
Diacord were suggested to me by other people, too.
But on ebay they are very rare (now only one), so the prices are
quite high.

Bye.
......................................
Marco Baldovin
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.whitewave.it" target="_blank">www.whitewave.it</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: first TLR, very cheap