Super Ikonta Shutters (flash synch)

"Matthew Winn" wrote in message


> The Compur-Rapid does have flash sync, or at least every Compur-Rapid
> I've seen does. It's X sync, firing when the shutter is fully open.
> The Synchro-Compur shutter adds M sync for flash bulbs.

Interesting. My Compur-Rapid has no flash socket whatsoever. It is #40642xx.
Where the ebay one has a flash socket, I have a cable release socket.

Were X (electronic) flashes available back then?
 >> Stay informed about: Super Ikonta Shutters (flash synch) 

Matthew Winn wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:32:24 -0600, <jjs> wrote:
>
>> It was/is my understanding that the old Zeiss Super Ikonta 'flash' shutter
>> was called a Synchro, and that the Rapid and other shutters had no flash
>> terminal.
>>
>> However, on that big auction site a fellow has one with a Rapid shutter and
>> claims that it has a flash terminal. He says it is just next to the shutter
>> cocking lever. Is this atypical or am I just flat wrong?
>
> The Compur-Rapid does have flash sync, or at least every Compur-Rapid
> I've seen does. It's X sync, firing when the shutter is fully open.
> The Synchro-Compur shutter adds M sync for flash bulbs.
>
There are Compurs-Rapids without flash sync: I think those with a "T"
and "B" positions (I had one in a kodak 620 duo)
 >> Stay informed about: Super Ikonta Shutters (flash synch) 

"JDA" wrote in message


> There are Compurs-Rapids without flash sync: I think those with a "T" and
> "B" positions (I had one in a kodak 620 duo)

Bingo! Mine has no flash synch, but it does have T whereas the flash synch
model on ebay has no T setting.

Thanks for that!
 >> Stay informed about: Super Ikonta Shutters (flash synch) 

jjs wrote:
> "Matthew Winn" wrote in message
>
>
>> The Compur-Rapid does have flash sync, or at least every
>> Compur-Rapid I've seen does. It's X sync, firing when the shutter
>> is fully open. The Synchro-Compur shutter adds M sync for flash
>> bulbs.
>
> Interesting. My Compur-Rapid has no flash socket whatsoever. It is
> #40642xx. Where the ebay one has a flash socket, I have a cable
> release socket.
>
> Were X (electronic) flashes available back then?

When is "back then"? The first I saw and used were ponderous Heilands
with large and heavy wet cell packs in the very early 50s. They were
not something for the consumer market and I don't recall how they
synced. I was in the Navy at the time. We used the anniversary
model Speed Graphic and flash bulb sync was via an external solenoid;
to change that solenoid so it synced with electronic flash would have
been extremely inconvenient to say the least so maybe the shutters
*did* have an x-sync. I have two Rolleis I purchased in 1956 with
X-sync.

The earliest consumer type electronic flash I know of was the "FR"
from the mid 50s. Used four "D" cells, good for about 30-40 flashes.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
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 >> Stay informed about: Super Ikonta Shutters (flash synch) 

"dadiOH" wrote in message

> jjs wrote:

>> Were X (electronic) flashes available back then?
>
> When is "back then"? The first I saw and used were ponderous Heilands
> with large and heavy wet cell packs in the very early 50s.

That is before my time in the profession, but I was referring to when my
camera was made, the 1930's.

But speaking of big flash units, I did lug about the huge, blue plastic
Singer Graflex battery pack, then later the "lightweight" 510 volt battery
(which was really something like sixty 9V batteries wired in series).
 >> Stay informed about: Super Ikonta Shutters (flash synch) 

jjs wrote:
> "dadiOH" wrote in message
>
>> jjs wrote:
>
>>> Were X (electronic) flashes available back then?
>>
>> When is "back then"? The first I saw and used were ponderous
>> Heilands with large and heavy wet cell packs in the very early 50s.
>
> That is before my time in the profession, but I was referring to
> when my camera was made, the 1930's.

I doubt there was X-sync then since Edgerton invented the speedlight
(AKA strobe) in 1931.
_____________

> But speaking of big flash units, I did lug about the huge, blue
> plastic Singer Graflex battery pack,

Shucks, it ain't heavy, it's my strobe. (Apologies to Father Flanagan
& Mickey Rooney)

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
 >> Stay informed about: Super Ikonta Shutters (flash synch) 

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:06:05 -0600, <jjs> wrote:

> "Matthew Winn" wrote in message
>
>
> > The Compur-Rapid does have flash sync, or at least every Compur-Rapid
> > I've seen does. It's X sync, firing when the shutter is fully open.
> > The Synchro-Compur shutter adds M sync for flash bulbs.
>
> Interesting. My Compur-Rapid has no flash socket whatsoever. It is #40642xx.
> Where the ebay one has a flash socket, I have a cable release socket.

Now I look more carefully I find I have one like that too. It's not in
a camera, which is probably why I didn't notice it.

> Were X (electronic) flashes available back then?

I'm no expert on flash sync, but I get the impression that X sync was
used with bulbs first: not because it was best suited to bulbs, but
because it was easy to build. All you need to do to get X sync on a
Compur shutter is to put a switch next to the ring that operates the
shutter blades and attach a peg to the ring such that when the shutter
is fully open the peg closes the switch. M sync is harder because the
switch has to close well before the shutter blades start to open.

I have a manual for a 35mm camera with a Compur-Rapid shutter and it
mentions electronic flash only in passing. Mostly it talks about bulbs
and the need for a shutter speed slower than 1/25s to allow the light
to peak.

--
Matthew Winn
[If replying by mail remove the "r" from "urk"]
 >> Stay informed about: Super Ikonta Shutters (flash synch) 

"dadiOH" wrote in message


>
> I doubt there was X-sync then since Edgerton invented the speedlight
> (AKA strobe) in 1931.

1950 seems to be the date of the factory shutter flash synch for Ikonta &
Super Ikontas.

I got a great, clear reprint, "IKONA & Super-Ikonta Guide" by "The Camera
Guide", 1952. I haven't finished it yet, but it does list just which models
had shutters with flash synch. Prontor, Compur and Compur Rapid shutters for
the Ikonta and Super Ikontas since 1950 were internally synchronized for
flash, however the flash delay was fixed at X so one had to use shutter
speeds to accomodate the flashbulb's rise time. This means typically 1/25th
of a second for most bulbs other than the Speed Midget types (which are
quite rare today.)

There were some made with The Speed Synchronized Prontor SV shutter which
added a synchro delay options of 0, 5 to 24 milli-seconds via a dial with X,
F, M settings to better accomodate various bulb rise-times.

Interesting find - some Ikontas were designed to accomodate 620 spools as
well as 120 spools. There was also a model that used 616 rollfilm which gave
a negative of 2.25 X 4.25".

Finally, for those confused by the two red windows in the back - use the
window on the LEFT. Unless you have an adapter to 645.
 >> Stay informed about: Super Ikonta Shutters (flash synch) 

jjs wrote:
> "dadiOH" wrote in message

> I got a great, clear reprint, "IKONA & Super-Ikonta Guide" by "The
> Camera Guide", 1952. I haven't finished it yet, but it does list
> just which models had shutters with flash synch. Prontor, Compur
> and Compur Rapid shutters for the Ikonta and Super Ikontas since
> 1950 were internally synchronized for flash, however the flash
> delay was fixed at X so one had to use shutter speeds to accomodate
> the flashbulb's rise time.

Or a mechanical device (solenoid). The first flash gun I ever had was
a Mendolsson (sp?) which I used on a Kodak Monitor. Once one got the
solenoid adjusted - a pain - it worked quite well.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
 >> Stay informed about: Super Ikonta Shutters (flash synch)