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Next: Scanning 126 and 110 negatives
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External
Since: Sep 26, 2004
Posts: 156
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:16 pm
Post subject: Scannable B&W films
Archived from groups: rec>photo>film+labs (more info?)
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Something new for discussion, hope not to need an asbestos suit though....
Looking at 400ASA B&W Films, I have some choices, which do you find
easiest to scan and gives the best scanned results.
Old Tech HP5 Plus/ New Tri-X
New Tech 400 Delta / T-Max 400
C41 XP2 Super, BW400CN
These are all readily available, reasonably priced and I have used the
old tech ones years and years ago. Want to get back into B&W....
W |
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External
Since: Jun 04, 2004
Posts: 1156
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Scannable B&W films [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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The Wogster wrote:
> Something new for discussion, hope not to need an asbestos suit though....
>
> Looking at 400ASA B&W Films, I have some choices, which do you find
> easiest to scan and gives the best scanned results.
>
> Old Tech HP5 Plus/ New Tri-X
Somewhat equal on a film scanner. Both of these are very comparable, and
about the same ease of use.
>
> New Tech 400 Delta / T-Max 400
I have only tried TMax 400, and it is not too much more difficult than TriX.
Scanning this film after pushing to ISO 1600 also works fairly well, and
slightly easier than scanning Ilford Delta 3200 (used at ISO 1600).
>
> C41 XP2 Super, BW400CN
The orange mask is troublesome for both on film scanners. SilverFast, or
LinoColor software can help greatly, though without those, these films are to
be avoided for scanning intentions. They tend to drum scan okay, though again
the combination of hardware and software are what helps the results.
>
>
> These are all readily available, reasonably priced and I have used the
> old tech ones years and years ago. Want to get back into B&W....
>
> W
My best advise to you is to scan regular B/W films as if they were
transparency films. Do so in full colour mode, then invert in PhotoShop (or
similar software). Then you can look in the Channels, and see which Channel,
or combination of Channels give the best tonal range. Keep the one or two
Channels that give the best results, then continue to work with the images
from there.
A film scanner is highly recommended, and ideally SilverFast software, if you
have that sort of budget. Also, you should be manually focusing the scanner
for best results. A slight change in focus from the autofocus point can
sometimes give much better results, and avoid appearance of excessive grain
or noise.
Ciao!
Gordon Moat
A G Studio
<http://www.allgstudio.com><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: 322
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Scannable B&W films [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jun 04, 2004
Posts: 1156
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:49 am
Post subject: Re: Scannable B&W films [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Rod Smith wrote:
> In article <41F96E9E.5A6F9F6A.DeleteThis@attglobal.net>,
> Gordon Moat <moat.DeleteThis@attglobal.net> writes:
> >
> > The Wogster wrote:
> >
> >> C41 XP2 Super, BW400CN
> >
> > The orange mask is troublesome for both on film scanners. SilverFast, or
> > LinoColor software can help greatly, though without those, these films are to
> > be avoided for scanning intentions. They tend to drum scan okay, though again
> > the combination of hardware and software are what helps the results.
>
> I've only used VueScan (http://www.hamrick.com), and I've only scanned
> about three rolls of this type of film, but VueScan seems to do a good
> job with them. The VueScan manual recommends setting the film type to
> color; you can then set the film brand appropriately, resulting in good
> image quality with little or no color tinting. (IMHO, you should NOT set
> the B&W JPEG option when saving to JPEG format; that tends to produce
> poor results, in my experience.)
>
> That said, I'm not a professional, nor do I have experience with hundreds
> of rolls of B&W film. I'm just suggesting that VueScan is worth trying if
> you're having problems with these films in other software. (VueScan is
> shareware, so you can try the demo version, which puts dollar signs in
> the images, to see if it'll work reasonably well with these films.)
>
> --
> Rod Smith, rodsmith.DeleteThis@rodsbooks.com
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rodsbooks.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.rodsbooks.com</font</a>>
> Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
I think VueScan is a good low cost solution, and on many scanners, it is better
than the original scanning software. Those who are not professionals, and want a
good product at a low cost, should investigate VueScan.
Ciao!
Gordon Moat
A G Studio
<http://www.allgstudio.com><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Scannable B&W films |
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External
Since: Aug 09, 2004
Posts: 48
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Scannable B&W films [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <41F96E9E.5A6F9F6A.DeleteThis@attglobal.net>,
Gordon Moat <moat.DeleteThis@attglobal.net> writes:
>
> The Wogster wrote:
>
>> C41 XP2 Super, BW400CN
>
> The orange mask is troublesome for both on film scanners. SilverFast, or
> LinoColor software can help greatly, though without those, these films are to
> be avoided for scanning intentions. They tend to drum scan okay, though again
> the combination of hardware and software are what helps the results.
I've only used VueScan (http://www.hamrick.com), and I've only scanned
about three rolls of this type of film, but VueScan seems to do a good
job with them. The VueScan manual recommends setting the film type to
color; you can then set the film brand appropriately, resulting in good
image quality with little or no color tinting. (IMHO, you should NOT set
the B&W JPEG option when saving to JPEG format; that tends to produce
poor results, in my experience.)
That said, I'm not a professional, nor do I have experience with hundreds
of rolls of B&W film. I'm just suggesting that VueScan is worth trying if
you're having problems with these films in other software. (VueScan is
shareware, so you can try the demo version, which puts dollar signs in
the images, to see if it'll work reasonably well with these films.)
--
Rod Smith, rodsmith.DeleteThis@rodsbooks.com
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rodsbooks.com" target="_blank">http://www.rodsbooks.com</a>
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Scannable B&W films |
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External
Since: Sep 26, 2004
Posts: 156
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Scannable B&W films [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Rod Smith wrote:
> In article <41F96E9E.5A6F9F6A.RemoveThis@attglobal.net>,
> Gordon Moat <moat.RemoveThis@attglobal.net> writes:
>
>>The Wogster wrote:
>>
>>
>>>C41 XP2 Super, BW400CN
>>
>>The orange mask is troublesome for both on film scanners. SilverFast, or
>>LinoColor software can help greatly, though without those, these films are to
>>be avoided for scanning intentions. They tend to drum scan okay, though again
>>the combination of hardware and software are what helps the results.
>
>
> I've only used VueScan (http://www.hamrick.com), and I've only scanned
> about three rolls of this type of film, but VueScan seems to do a good
> job with them. The VueScan manual recommends setting the film type to
> color; you can then set the film brand appropriately, resulting in good
> image quality with little or no color tinting. (IMHO, you should NOT set
> the B&W JPEG option when saving to JPEG format; that tends to produce
> poor results, in my experience.)
>
> That said, I'm not a professional, nor do I have experience with hundreds
> of rolls of B&W film. I'm just suggesting that VueScan is worth trying if
> you're having problems with these films in other software. (VueScan is
> shareware, so you can try the demo version, which puts dollar signs in
> the images, to see if it'll work reasonably well with these films.)
>
The ones I have from the archives (late 1970's) that I have scanned,
show good to fair to poor results, Ilford Pan-F was excellent, FP-4 and
Plus-X good, HP-5 fair, and Tri-X was the same dreadful grainy mess,
that made AgBr printing the stuff, a chore in the late 1970's. I tried
a roll of XP-2 and it was pretty good, XP-2 Super has no orange mask,
where as BW400CN does, from what I understand.
Vuescan might be worth a try, if it supports my scanner, I want to stay
away from the Chromogenics, because I can't control the process as
easily as with a Spiral Tank, besides I always enjoyed pulling a roll of
wet shiny negatives out of the tank. Printing I didn't like as much.
One observation, the easier a negative is to AgBr print, (i.e. good
exposure) the easier it is to scan.....<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Scannable B&W films |
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External
Since: Jan 08, 2005
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Scannable B&W films [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 09:16:29 -0800, The Wogster wrote:
> Something new for discussion, hope not to need an asbestos suit
> though....
>
> Looking at 400ASA B&W Films, I have some choices, which do you find
> easiest to scan and gives the best scanned results.
>
> Old Tech HP5 Plus/ New Tri-X
> New Tech 400 Delta / T-Max 400
> C41 XP2 Super, BW400CN
>
> These are all readily available, reasonably priced and I have used
> the old tech ones years and years ago. Want to get back into
> B&W....
You'll probably have the easiest time scanning XP2 (assuming it's still
available, as Ilford is bankrupt) because its color is close to
neutral.
Kodak's BW400CN is another alternative, although it has an orange mask
designed to give neutral minilab prints. With chromogenic film you can
use infrared cleaning, which can save you lots of "uncreative" time
removing dust spots. Infrared cleaning doesn't work with conventional
silver black and white film. If you don't have your own darkroom,
chromogenic is really the only choice. Few labs process black and white
any more, but any lab can do C-41.
If your intent is to scan negatives rather than printing them
optically,
let me make another suggestion. Use a good color negative film (Kodak
400UC or Fuji Superia 800) and convert it to black and white with a
channel-mixer tool. That gives you the advantage of adjusting the final
tonality of the monochrome image, as if you had a nearly infinite set
of
color filters. There's also the advantage of having a full-color image
available if you should want that.
---
Non-spam e-mail: usenet{AT}tedsimages{dot}com
Visit my Virtual Light Table: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.tedsimages.com" target="_blank">http://www.tedsimages.com</a>
Travel, scenic, and fine art photography<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Scannable B&W films |
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External
Since: Aug 09, 2004
Posts: 48
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 1:29 am
Post subject: Re: Scannable B&W films [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <YQuKd.10049$mA5.774360@news20.bellglobal.com>,
The Wogster <wogsterca RemoveThis @yahoo.ca> writes:
>
> XP-2 Super has no orange mask,
> where as BW400CN does, from what I understand.
That's correct; processed Ilford XP-2 Super negatives look just like
conventional B&W negatives to the naked eye (a bit of a purplish tone),
whereas Kodak BW400CN negatives have an orange mask that's similar to
that on C-41 color films. (I just double-checked samples of both to
verify this.)
--
Rod Smith, rodsmith RemoveThis @rodsbooks.com
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rodsbooks.com" target="_blank">http://www.rodsbooks.com</a>
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Scannable B&W films |
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External
Since: Sep 26, 2004
Posts: 156
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 1:29 am
Post subject: Re: Scannable B&W films [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Rod Smith wrote:
> In article <YQuKd.10049$mA5.774360@news20.bellglobal.com>,
> The Wogster <wogsterca.RemoveThis@yahoo.ca> writes:
>
>>XP-2 Super has no orange mask,
>>where as BW400CN does, from what I understand.
>
>
> That's correct; processed Ilford XP-2 Super negatives look just like
> conventional B&W negatives to the naked eye (a bit of a purplish tone),
> whereas Kodak BW400CN negatives have an orange mask that's similar to
> that on C-41 color films. (I just double-checked samples of both to
> verify this.)
>
BW400CN is intended on working woth any mini-lab that has been set up
for C41 colour films. XP-2 is more intended for machine processing
where the prints will be conventional B&W printing.
W<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Scannable B&W films |
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External
Since: Aug 09, 2004
Posts: 48
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Scannable B&W films [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <1106969763.056495.288440 RemoveThis @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"Ted" <tmvlt RemoveThis @yahoo.com> writes:
>
> If you don't have your own darkroom,
> chromogenic is really the only choice. Few labs process black and white
> any more, but any lab can do C-41.
IMHO, that's overstating things by a lot. Although conventional B&W
processing is certainly not as readily available as C-41 processing, it's
not really hard to find labs that'll do it, particularly if you live in a
big city or are willing to do it mail order. Just don't take conventional
B&W to a drug store for 1-hour processing! :-\
--
Rod Smith, rodsmith RemoveThis @rodsbooks.com
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rodsbooks.com" target="_blank">http://www.rodsbooks.com</a>
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Scannable B&W films |
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External
Since: Sep 26, 2004
Posts: 156
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:17 am
Post subject: Re: Scannable B&W films [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ted wrote:
> If you don't have your own darkroom, chromogenic is really the
> only choice. Few labs process black and white any more, but
> any lab can do C-41.
>
I have a developing tank, and I know how to use it.... Funny, before I
closed the fume room in 1982, I liked processing film a lot more then
printing, I also had, probably one of the first tray less B&W darkrooms,
paper went into a colour tube, and got processed in conventional
chemistries, using colour methods.....
> If your intent is to scan negatives rather than printing them
> optically,
> let me make another suggestion. Use a good color negative film (Kodak
> 400UC or Fuji Superia 800) and convert it to black and white with a
> channel-mixer tool. That gives you the advantage of adjusting the final
> tonality of the monochrome image, as if you had a nearly infinite set
> of
> color filters. There's also the advantage of having a full-color image
> available if you should want that.
I've done that, have a hard time remembering which images were taken
with the intention of making B&W images out of them later on. I figure
using B&W film, will simply force the issue. Besides I have two camera
bodies, the intention is to eventually load one with colour, one with
B&W and work that way.....
W<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Scannable B&W films |
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External
Since: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Scannable B&W films [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 06:17:38 -0800, The Wogster wrote:
>> If your intent is to scan negatives rather than printing them
>> optically,
>> let me make another suggestion. Use a good color negative film
>> (Kodak 400UC or Fuji Superia 800) and convert it to black and
>> white with a channel-mixer tool. That gives you the advantage of
>> adjusting the final tonality of the monochrome image, as if you
>> had a nearly infinite set of
>> color filters. There's also the advantage of having a full-color
>> image available if you should want that.
>>
>
> I've done that, have a hard time remembering which images were
> taken with the intention of making B&W images out of them later on.
> I figure using B&W film, will simply force the issue. Besides I
> have two camera bodies, the intention is to eventually load one
> with colour, one with B&W and work that way.....
If that's what you enjoy doing, far be it for me to deny you that
pleasure. But it just doesn't make much sense to me. Sometimes you just
don't know which images will end up working better in black and white,
so there are advantages to starting out with color. Admittedly, I
convert very few of my images to black and white, but when I do that
it's because during digital processing I realize that the image will
have more impact that way. It's good to have that choice.
---
Non-spam e-mail: usenet{AT}tedsimages{dot}com
Visit my Virtual Light Table: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.tedsimages.com" target="_blank">http://www.tedsimages.com</a>
Travel, scenic, and fine art photography<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Scannable B&W films |
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External
Since: Sep 26, 2004
Posts: 156
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Scannable B&W films [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ted wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 06:17:38 -0800, The Wogster wrote:
>
>
>>>If your intent is to scan negatives rather than printing them
>>>optically,
>>>let me make another suggestion. Use a good color negative film
>>>(Kodak 400UC or Fuji Superia 800) and convert it to black and
>>>white with a channel-mixer tool. That gives you the advantage of
>>>adjusting the final tonality of the monochrome image, as if you
>>>had a nearly infinite set of
>>>color filters. There's also the advantage of having a full-color
>>>image available if you should want that.
>>>
>>
>>I've done that, have a hard time remembering which images were
>>taken with the intention of making B&W images out of them later on.
>> I figure using B&W film, will simply force the issue. Besides I
>>have two camera bodies, the intention is to eventually load one
>>with colour, one with B&W and work that way.....
>
>
> If that's what you enjoy doing, far be it for me to deny you that
> pleasure. But it just doesn't make much sense to me. Sometimes you just
> don't know which images will end up working better in black and white,
> so there are advantages to starting out with color. Admittedly, I
> convert very few of my images to black and white, but when I do that
> it's because during digital processing I realize that the image will
> have more impact that way. It's good to have that choice.
>
My one camera body was declared DOA by the repair shop this morning, so
I need to replace is as I am down to one, and it needs work too. I'll
need to stick to colour for a while, at least until I can get my cameras
all working again.....
W<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Scannable B&W films |
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External
Since: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Scannable B&W films [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:20:33 -0800, The Wogster wrote:
> My one camera body was declared DOA by the repair shop this
> morning, so I need to replace is as I am down to one, and it needs
> work too. I'll need to stick to colour for a while, at least until
> I can get my cameras all working again.....
Replace it with a digital camera and you'll have no problem at all!
---
Non-spam e-mail: usenet{AT}tedsimages{dot}com
Visit my Virtual Light Table: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.tedsimages.com" target="_blank">http://www.tedsimages.com</a>
Travel, scenic, and fine art photography<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Scannable B&W films |
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External
Since: Sep 26, 2004
Posts: 156
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:12 am
Post subject: Re: Scannable B&W films [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Ted wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:20:33 -0800, The Wogster wrote:
>
>
>>My one camera body was declared DOA by the repair shop this
>>morning, so I need to replace is as I am down to one, and it needs
>>work too. I'll need to stick to colour for a while, at least until
>>I can get my cameras all working again.....
>
>
> Replace it with a digital camera and you'll have no problem at all!
>
The current budget is under $200, find me a nice new digital SLR for
under $200 with at least a 6MP sensor, and I'm game....
W<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Scannable B&W films |
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