Rechargeable batteries with Canon A570IS

On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 02:01:12 -0800 (PST), mark.thomas.7.TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote
in <e8fa3381-3fe9-4c55-b2c3-b18fee8fc70d.TakeThisOut@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>:

>In general terms you should not use a fast charger on batteries not
>designed for fast charging.

<quibble>

Depends on what you mean by "fast" charging. It's always safe to use a
1C fast charger on a standard rechargeable battery. 1C means a charging
rate of the Capacity of the battery. Recharge time is about 2.5 hours

Faster "fast" chargers that are properly designed will also generally be
safe down with standard batteries to about one hour recharge time.

The possible danger comes from using even faster "fast" chargers, 15-30
minute recharge, although some of those are designed to automatically
use a safe slower charge for standard batteries (e.g., Ravovac IC3).

</quibble>
--
Best regards,
John Navas
Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)
 >> Stay informed about: Rechargeable batteries with Canon A570IS 

mark.thomas.7 DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:

> On Feb 7, 1:06 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I bought some of the Duracell 15-minute rechargeables with the 15-minute
>> charger. Nice for a while, but within a few months they would hold a
>> charge for less than a day.
>
> I've never had much time for fast charging batteries.. Weak joke,
> sorry. But 'tis true..
>
>> Complained to DuraCell, who sent me a
>> certificate for their new precharged rechargeable batteries (equivalent
>> to Sanyo Eneloops).
>>
>> The camera (8 months old) says the precharged rechargeables need
>> recharging right out of the package. I charged them in the Duracell
>> charger....(and) the similar Radio Shack charger.
>> ...
>> Who do I blame?
>
> It's a little difficult to say, but it might be you (O; Are those new
> batteries meant to be recharged on a 15-minute charger, and is the RS
> charger a fast one too?

The Duracell customer service person said I could use the charger with
all NiMH batteries; it would charge the 15-minute batteries in 15
minutes and ordinary NiMH batteries overnight. Same with the RS charger.

> I have Eneloops and they work wonderfully, but I charge them on the
> *slow* Sanyo charger supplied.
>
> In general terms you should not use a fast charger on batteries not
> designed for fast charging.

Sounds reasonable, but I would assume that the instructions don't
actually lie. Probably not a good assumption...

> Having said that, if they really are hybrid batteries, they should
> indeed have been close to full charge when you got them. So perhaps
> the camera or one or more of the new batteries are faulty. Find a
> friend with a voltmeter/battery tester who can check them out, so you
> can find out who to yell at...

Actually, I carry one around in my purse; I just don't know what the
actual voltage should be

I now assume (yeah, I know!) that the camera sometimes gives the 'dead
battery' signal for no reason at all and stops likewise. Since normal
'dead battery' signals don't give more warning than a few shots it
probably doesn't matter if it's just a glitch -- although I would hope
that an 8-month-old camera wouldn't have glitches like that.

--
Cheers, Bev
=============================================
You need only two tools: WD-40 and duct tape.
If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40.
If it moves and shouldn't, use duct tape.
 >> Stay informed about: Rechargeable batteries with Canon A570IS 

The Real Bev wrote:
> mark.thomas.7 RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Feb 7, 1:06 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I bought some of the Duracell 15-minute rechargeables with the 15-minute
>>> charger. Nice for a while, but within a few months they would hold a
>>> charge for less than a day.
>>
>> I've never had much time for fast charging batteries.. Weak joke,
>> sorry. But 'tis true..
>>
>>> Complained to DuraCell, who sent me a
>>> certificate for their new precharged rechargeable batteries (equivalent
>>> to Sanyo Eneloops).
>>>
>>> The camera (8 months old) says the precharged rechargeables need
>>> recharging right out of the package. I charged them in the Duracell
>>> charger....(and) the similar Radio Shack charger.
>>> ...
>>> Who do I blame?
>>
>> It's a little difficult to say, but it might be you (O; Are those new
>> batteries meant to be recharged on a 15-minute charger, and is the RS
>> charger a fast one too?
>
> The Duracell customer service person said I could use the charger with
> all NiMH batteries; it would charge the 15-minute batteries in 15
> minutes and ordinary NiMH batteries overnight. Same with the RS charger.
>
>> I have Eneloops and they work wonderfully, but I charge them on the
>> *slow* Sanyo charger supplied.
>>
>> In general terms you should not use a fast charger on batteries not
>> designed for fast charging.
>
> Sounds reasonable, but I would assume that the instructions don't
> actually lie. Probably not a good assumption...
>
>> Having said that, if they really are hybrid batteries, they should
>> indeed have been close to full charge when you got them. So perhaps
>> the camera or one or more of the new batteries are faulty. Find a
>> friend with a voltmeter/battery tester who can check them out, so you
>> can find out who to yell at...
>
> Actually, I carry one around in my purse; I just don't know what the
> actual voltage should be
>
> I now assume (yeah, I know!) that the camera sometimes gives the 'dead
> battery' signal for no reason at all and stops likewise. Since normal
> 'dead battery' signals don't give more warning than a few shots it
> probably doesn't matter if it's just a glitch -- although I would hope
> that an 8-month-old camera wouldn't have glitches like that.
>

I agree it's most likely the camera and all the 'hoping' in the world
won't fix it. Make sure it's not dirty contacts and contact canon.
Dave Cohen
 >> Stay informed about: Rechargeable batteries with Canon A570IS 

On Feb 8, 2:36 am, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Duracell customer service person said..
Yes, but what does the manual say? (Sorry, I'm just being a cynic!)

> I could use the charger with
> all NiMH batteries
While hybrid batteries use NiMh technology, I'm not entirely sure
whether the charging requirements are the same as a normal 'slow'
NiMh.
> it would charge the 15-minute batteries in 15
> minutes and ordinary NiMH batteries overnight.
Sounds good, but my worry would be - when you put in the hybrids, does
it properly recognise them as 'slow' batteries? Was the charger
designed before or after hybrids came onto the market? I don't know
what the voltage characteristics of hybrids are, nor exactly how the
charger spots the difference, but they are obviously very different to
normal NiMh...

It's all too hard. (O;

> Sounds reasonable, but I would assume that the instructions don't
> actually lie. Probably not a good assumption...

Well, if the manual refers to *hybrid* batteries specifically, I would
be somewhat confident. If not, your guess is probably as good as
mine..

> Actually, I carry one around in my purse; I just don't know what the
> actual voltage should be
I can tell you that my relatively new Eneloops (maybe 4 charge
cycles), recently charged and having sat on the shelf for two days,
are all sitting on almost exactly 1.41 volts (all within about 0.1%,
impressively!), if that helps. (There will be variation between
brands, and really you would need to test them under load, but if the
voltages are *near* there, and are all reasonably consistent, then
that would indicate to me that it isn't the batteries..)

> I now assume (yeah, I know!) that the camera sometimes gives the 'dead
> battery' signal for no reason at all and stops likewise. Since normal
> 'dead battery' signals don't give more warning than a few shots it
> probably doesn't matter if it's just a glitch -- although I would hope
> that an 8-month-old camera wouldn't have glitches like that.

It *is* starting to sound like the camera, but let us know how you get
on, and like dave said, check the contacts. Do you have an
electronics whizkid nearby?

Good luck.
 >> Stay informed about: Rechargeable batteries with Canon A570IS 

? "The Real Bev" <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> ?????? ??? ??????
news:usGqj.19$_N4.4@newsfe02.lga...
> mark.thomas.7.TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Feb 7, 1:06 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I bought some of the Duracell 15-minute rechargeables with the
15-minute
> >> charger. Nice for a while, but within a few months they would hold a
> >> charge for less than a day.
> >
> > I've never had much time for fast charging batteries.. Weak joke,
> > sorry. But 'tis true..
> >
> >> Complained to DuraCell, who sent me a
> >> certificate for their new precharged rechargeable batteries (equivalent
> >> to Sanyo Eneloops).
> >>
> >> The camera (8 months old) says the precharged rechargeables need
> >> recharging right out of the package. I charged them in the Duracell
> >> charger....(and) the similar Radio Shack charger.
> >> ...
> >> Who do I blame?
> >
> > It's a little difficult to say, but it might be you (O; Are those new
> > batteries meant to be recharged on a 15-minute charger, and is the RS
> > charger a fast one too?
>
> The Duracell customer service person said I could use the charger with
> all NiMH batteries; it would charge the 15-minute batteries in 15
> minutes and ordinary NiMH batteries overnight. Same with the RS charger.
>
> > I have Eneloops and they work wonderfully, but I charge them on the
> > *slow* Sanyo charger supplied.
> >
> > In general terms you should not use a fast charger on batteries not
> > designed for fast charging.
>
> Sounds reasonable, but I would assume that the instructions don't
> actually lie. Probably not a good assumption...
>
> > Having said that, if they really are hybrid batteries, they should
> > indeed have been close to full charge when you got them. So perhaps
> > the camera or one or more of the new batteries are faulty. Find a
> > friend with a voltmeter/battery tester who can check them out, so you
> > can find out who to yell at...
>
> Actually, I carry one around in my purse; I just don't know what the
> actual voltage should be
>
> I now assume (yeah, I know!) that the camera sometimes gives the 'dead
> battery' signal for no reason at all and stops likewise. Since normal
> 'dead battery' signals don't give more warning than a few shots it
> probably doesn't matter if it's just a glitch -- although I would hope
> that an 8-month-old camera wouldn't have glitches like that.
>
> --
> Cheers, Bev
> =============================================
> You need only two tools: WD-40 and duct tape.
> If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40.
> If it moves and shouldn't, use duct tape.
This reminds me of the old greek army thumb rule: if it moves, we salute at
it, if it doesn't, we paint it.


--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering
mechanized infantry reservist
hordad AT otenet DOT gr
 >> Stay informed about: Rechargeable batteries with Canon A570IS 

Dave Cohen wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>> mark.thomas.7 RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 7, 1:06 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I bought some of the Duracell 15-minute rechargeables with the 15-minute
>>>> charger. Nice for a while, but within a few months they would hold a
>>>> charge for less than a day.
>>>
>>> I've never had much time for fast charging batteries.. Weak joke,
>>> sorry. But 'tis true..
>>>
>>>> Complained to DuraCell, who sent me a
>>>> certificate for their new precharged rechargeable batteries (equivalent
>>>> to Sanyo Eneloops).
>>>>
>>>> The camera (8 months old) says the precharged rechargeables need
>>>> recharging right out of the package. I charged them in the Duracell
>>>> charger....(and) the similar Radio Shack charger.
>>>> ...
>>>> Who do I blame?
>>>
>>> It's a little difficult to say, but it might be you (O; Are those new
>>> batteries meant to be recharged on a 15-minute charger, and is the RS
>>> charger a fast one too?
>>
>> The Duracell customer service person said I could use the charger with
>> all NiMH batteries; it would charge the 15-minute batteries in 15
>> minutes and ordinary NiMH batteries overnight. Same with the RS charger.
>>
>>> I have Eneloops and they work wonderfully, but I charge them on the
>>> *slow* Sanyo charger supplied.
>>>
>>> In general terms you should not use a fast charger on batteries not
>>> designed for fast charging.
>>
>> Sounds reasonable, but I would assume that the instructions don't
>> actually lie. Probably not a good assumption...
>>
>>> Having said that, if they really are hybrid batteries, they should
>>> indeed have been close to full charge when you got them.

....that being the whole point of "precharged" batteries.

>>> So perhaps
>>> the camera or one or more of the new batteries are faulty. Find a
>>> friend with a voltmeter/battery tester who can check them out, so you
>>> can find out who to yell at...
>>
>> Actually, I carry one around in my purse; I just don't know what the
>> actual voltage should be

The little pocket size VM's batteries are dead. Nobody handy has A76s.
Feh.

>> I now assume (yeah, I know!) that the camera sometimes gives the 'dead
>> battery' signal for no reason at all and stops likewise. Since normal
>> 'dead battery' signals don't give more warning than a few shots it
>> probably doesn't matter if it's just a glitch -- although I would hope
>> that an 8-month-old camera wouldn't have glitches like that.
>
> I agree it's most likely the camera and all the 'hoping' in the world
> won't fix it. Make sure it's not dirty contacts and contact canon.

Phoned customer service, sent it in ($10 UPS), got it back 3 weeks later
(today). They can't get the parts to repair it so they sent me a
replacement "refurbished" unit. Anybody want to guess what happened next?

Yup, THIS one has the same problem (tried various rechargeable and
alkaline batteries just like before, all of which work just fine in my
CP800) AND at least one more -- the 'Program' mode doesn't work. When I
saw that I hit the ceiling.

Customer service is sending me a UPS label and promises that they'll get
it back to me -- fixed -- in less than 3 weeks (it apparently took them
over a week to realize that they couldn't fix it). I have no idea what
they think they can do this time, but if it isn't something spectacular
that's the last Canon product I ever buy.

--
Cheers,
Bev
------------------------------------------------------
"Don't bother looking for that key. There is no Esc."
-- M. Tabnik
 >> Stay informed about: Rechargeable batteries with Canon A570IS 

Sorry for top-posting, but it seemed appropriate.

Ultimately Canon sent me an A720IS as a replacement with a 2-month
extension on the previous warranty -- which will be worthless if this
one lasts for 6 months like the A570IS did (I spent a few months
worrying about the batteries). More zoom, more megapixels, $70 less
than the A570. So far so good...

The Real Bev wrote:
> Dave Cohen wrote:
>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>> mark.thomas.7.TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Feb 7, 1:06 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I bought some of the Duracell 15-minute rechargeables with the 15-minute
>>>>> charger. Nice for a while, but within a few months they would hold a
>>>>> charge for less than a day.
>>>>
>>>> I've never had much time for fast charging batteries.. Weak joke,
>>>> sorry. But 'tis true..
>>>>
>>>>> Complained to DuraCell, who sent me a
>>>>> certificate for their new precharged rechargeable batteries (equivalent
>>>>> to Sanyo Eneloops).
>>>>>
>>>>> The camera (8 months old) says the precharged rechargeables need
>>>>> recharging right out of the package. I charged them in the Duracell
>>>>> charger....(and) the similar Radio Shack charger.
>>>>> ...
>>>>> Who do I blame?
>>>>
>>>> It's a little difficult to say, but it might be you (O; Are those new
>>>> batteries meant to be recharged on a 15-minute charger, and is the RS
>>>> charger a fast one too?
>>>
>>> The Duracell customer service person said I could use the charger with
>>> all NiMH batteries; it would charge the 15-minute batteries in 15
>>> minutes and ordinary NiMH batteries overnight. Same with the RS charger.
>>>
>>>> I have Eneloops and they work wonderfully, but I charge them on the
>>>> *slow* Sanyo charger supplied.
>>>>
>>>> In general terms you should not use a fast charger on batteries not
>>>> designed for fast charging.
>>>
>>> Sounds reasonable, but I would assume that the instructions don't
>>> actually lie. Probably not a good assumption...
>>>
>>>> Having said that, if they really are hybrid batteries, they should
>>>> indeed have been close to full charge when you got them.
>
> ...that being the whole point of "precharged" batteries.
>
>>>> So perhaps
>>>> the camera or one or more of the new batteries are faulty. Find a
>>>> friend with a voltmeter/battery tester who can check them out, so you
>>>> can find out who to yell at...
>>>
>>> Actually, I carry one around in my purse; I just don't know what the
>>> actual voltage should be
>
> The little pocket size VM's batteries are dead. Nobody handy has A76s.
> Feh.
>
>>> I now assume (yeah, I know!) that the camera sometimes gives the 'dead
>>> battery' signal for no reason at all and stops likewise. Since normal
>>> 'dead battery' signals don't give more warning than a few shots it
>>> probably doesn't matter if it's just a glitch -- although I would hope
>>> that an 8-month-old camera wouldn't have glitches like that.
>>
>> I agree it's most likely the camera and all the 'hoping' in the world
>> won't fix it. Make sure it's not dirty contacts and contact canon.
>
> Phoned customer service, sent it in ($10 UPS), got it back 3 weeks later
> (today). They can't get the parts to repair it so they sent me a
> replacement "refurbished" unit. Anybody want to guess what happened next?
>
> Yup, THIS one has the same problem (tried various rechargeable and
> alkaline batteries just like before, all of which work just fine in my
> CP800) AND at least one more -- the 'Program' mode doesn't work. When I
> saw that I hit the ceiling.
>
> Customer service is sending me a UPS label and promises that they'll get
> it back to me -- fixed -- in less than 3 weeks (it apparently took them
> over a week to realize that they couldn't fix it). I have no idea what
> they think they can do this time, but if it isn't something spectacular
> that's the last Canon product I ever buy.

--
Cheers,
Bev
------------------------------------------------
There are 10 types of geek in this world,
those who understand binary and those who don't.
 >> Stay informed about: Rechargeable batteries with Canon A570IS 

Always better to use Nickel Hydride Batteries or NhMi for short as they
hold the charge better than Nicad types, the higher the capacity the
better such as the 2500Ma types.... better still for holding charge are
the Lithium Ion batteries (Li types).

You will never get the full charge capacity out of a rechargeable
battery until they have seen three or four discharge recharge cycles.

This link may help 'Battery myths explained.'
(http://www.greenbatteries.com/batterymyths.html)

I have no problem with the 2500mA NhMi types in my Canon A650IS and I
use a standard charger, with two lots of Battery brands. Many
rechargeable batteries are not designed for fast charging while some
are, due to the heat produced and 'gassing', this may be worth checking.

davy
 >> Stay informed about: Rechargeable batteries with Canon A570IS 

Per measekite:
>I like top posting. You can read the last response without having to scroll. If you are not familiar with the thread then you scroll down until you get the drift.

You are not alone.
--
PeteCresswell
 >> Stay informed about: Rechargeable batteries with Canon A570IS 

>Always better to use Nickel Hydride Batteries or NhMi for short as they
>hold the charge better than Nicad types,

I believe that this statement is largely backwards. NiCd cells have a
relatively low self-discharge rate, and will hold their charge for
months.

Until quite recently, NiMH cells have had a *much* higher
self-discharge rate than NiCd... up to several percent charge loss per
day. This still remains true for the higher-capacity NiMH types (2500
or 2600 mAh AA) - these trade off charge-retention for maximum
charge-holding.

High-capacity NiMH are a good choice if you plan to use the camera or
other device heavily enough that you'l need to recharge at least every
few weeks.

If you use the camera less frequently, you might be happier with the
new generation of low-self-discharge NiMH cells (Powerex Imedion,
Sanyo Eneloop, Uniross Hybrio, Rayovac Hybrid). These typically have
a lower capacity (2000-2100 mAh) but will hold the majority of their
charge for many months.

>I have no problem with the 2500mA NhMi types in my Canon A650IS and I
>use a standard charger, with two lots of Battery brands. Many
>rechargeable batteries are not designed for fast charging while some
>are, due to the heat produced and 'gassing', this may be worth checking.

For best service life, it's best to use a charger specifically
designed for NiMH cells, with an appropriate charge rate and with
effective full-charge cutoff circuitry (typically, temperature-
rise sensing and zero-delta-V). NiMH cells are less tolerant of
overcharging than NiCd.

--
Dave Platt <dplatt DeleteThis @radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
 >> Stay informed about: Rechargeable batteries with Canon A570IS