Problems with Kyocera SL400R

"Woodchuck Bill" <bwr607 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Xns95904B140DEB1bswr607h4@130.133.1.4...
 > "Robert Klemme" <bob.news RemoveThis @gmx.net> wrote in
 > news:2uc4p5F25mi8aU1@uni-berlin.de:
 >
  > > I bought the named model the other day. After several hours of error
  > > free operation, the camera started to switch off immediately after
  > > switch on. The error persists a while and seems to go away if I leave
  > > it alone for some time. It doesn't seem to be a power supply problem
  > > as the battery is far from empty. I consider this a manufacturing
  > > error.
 >
 > Return it.

That's what I've done this morning. (Mailed it.)

 > What is the refund/exchange policy of the merchant?

I'll get a replacement (European consumer protection laws are in effect,
I'm in Germany; refunding is also an option).

I was mainly interested to hear whether others have had the same issue
with these models. I'm sorry if that hasn't become clear enough from my
post.

Thx anyway!

Kind regards

robert<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Problems with Kyocera SL400R 

"Robert Klemme" <bob.news.TakeThisOut@gmx.net> wrote in news:2ucg2nF26rir9U1@uni-
berlin.de:

 > I was mainly interested to hear whether others have had the same issue
 > with these models. I'm sorry if that hasn't become clear enough from my
 > post.

It was clear. I was just making a general suggestion. Please keep in
mind that this newsgroup was created less than 24 hours ago, and it has yet
to appear on many servers. The traffic will pick up in due time.

Good luck with your replacement camera!

--
Bill<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Problems with Kyocera SL400R 

Kibo informs me that "Robert Klemme" <bob.news.DeleteThis@gmx.net> stated that:

 >
 >Hi all,
 >
 >I bought the named model the other day. After several hours of error free
 >operation, the camera started to switch off immediately after switch on.
 >The error persists a while and seems to go away if I leave it alone for
 >some time. It doesn't seem to be a power supply problem as the battery is
 >far from empty.

I'm guessing that you were too impatient to try your new camera to
follow the instructions about conditioning your new battery. Many
digicams require you to charge a new battery for 24 hours (or some other
quite long period) before using it for the first time. If you failed to
do that, it'd explain why your camera *thinks* the battery is nearly
full, when it's actually flat.
Before blaming the camera, try conditioning the battery *exactly*
according to the instruction book, & see if that fixes the problem.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Problems with Kyocera SL400R 

Lionel <nop RemoveThis @alt.net> wrote in
news:1472o0po46qmi5eb4ckq38khpc6mesn8am@4ax.com:

 > Before blaming the camera, try conditioning the battery *exactly*
 > according to the instruction book, & see if that fixes the problem.

He posted that he already sent it back, but this is some good advice. If he
runs into the same problem with the replacement unit, that may very well be
the problem.

--
Bill<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Problems with Kyocera SL400R 

Kibo informs me that Woodchuck Bill <bwr607 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> stated that:

 >Lionel <nop RemoveThis @alt.net> wrote in
 >news:1472o0po46qmi5eb4ckq38khpc6mesn8am@4ax.com:
 >
  >> Before blaming the camera, try conditioning the battery *exactly*
  >> according to the instruction book, & see if that fixes the problem.
 >
 >He posted that he already sent it back,

Damn, I hadn't seen his second post before writing my response.

 > but this is some good advice.

Thanks. Can you tell that I've worked in tech-support? Back when I
worked at a Toshiba laptop distribution company, battery 'problems' like
this used to be one of the biggest cause of tech-support calls.

 >If he
 >runs into the same problem with the replacement unit, that may very well be
 >the problem.

My bet is that they'll cycle his battery, find that the camera then
works correctly.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Problems with Kyocera SL400R 

"Lionel" <nop.DeleteThis@alt.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:84a2o0d1aadomi8bpo0j638j3rsjg6kqlc@4ax.com...
 > Kibo informs me that Woodchuck Bill <bwr607.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> stated that:
 >
  > >Lionel <nop.DeleteThis@alt.net> wrote in
  > >news:1472o0po46qmi5eb4ckq38khpc6mesn8am@4ax.com:
  > >
   > >> Before blaming the camera, try conditioning the battery *exactly*
   > >> according to the instruction book, & see if that fixes the problem.
  > >
  > >He posted that he already sent it back,
 >
 > Damn, I hadn't seen his second post before writing my response.
 >
  > > but this is some good advice.
 >
 > Thanks. Can you tell that I've worked in tech-support? Back when I
 > worked at a Toshiba laptop distribution company, battery 'problems' like
 > this used to be one of the biggest cause of tech-support calls.
 >
  > >If he
  > >runs into the same problem with the replacement unit, that may very
well be
  > >the problem.
 >
 > My bet is that they'll cycle his battery, find that the camera then
 > works correctly.

Although they might, because the error surfaces only from time to time, I
bet against this. Reasons:

- Battery was initally fully charged according to instructions
(fortunately only about 3 hrs required for a full load and no
24h initialization period)

- I could get the camera switched on in view mode and battery
indicator showed three out of three bars (i.e relatively close
to full).

- The problem surfaced shortly after the next full load.

For the moment I'll stick with my hypothesis that there is a mechanical
problem with the lens or a problem in the camera's control circuits until
someone shows up with a better alternative.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestion!

Kind regards

robert - eagerly awaiting the replacement


PS: I let you know how the other one does.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Problems with Kyocera SL400R 

"Woodchuck Bill" <bwr607.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Xns9590549A97A31bswr607h4@130.133.1.4...
 > "Robert Klemme" <bob.news.DeleteThis@gmx.net> wrote in news:2ucg2nF26rir9U1@uni-
 > berlin.de:
 >
  > > I was mainly interested to hear whether others have had the same issue
  > > with these models. I'm sorry if that hasn't become clear enough from
my
  > > post.
 >
 > It was clear. I was just making a general suggestion. Please keep in
 > mind that this newsgroup was created less than 24 hours ago, and it has
yet
 > to appear on many servers. The traffic will pick up in due time.

Yeah, true.

 > Good luck with your replacement camera!

Thanks a lot!

Kind regards

robert<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Problems with Kyocera SL400R 

Kibo informs me that "Robert Klemme" <bob.news DeleteThis @gmx.net> stated that:

 >"Lionel" <nop DeleteThis @alt.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
  >> My bet is that they'll cycle his battery, find that the camera then
  >> works correctly.
 >
 >Although they might, because the error surfaces only from time to time,

I hope you made a point of mentioning this to them, because otherwise
it's entirely possible that they won't leave it on test for long enough
to make the fault show up, & you'll get it back with a snotty note
telling you that there's nothing wrong with it.

 > I
 >bet against this. Reasons:
 >
 > - Battery was initally fully charged according to instructions
 > (fortunately only about 3 hrs required for a full load and no
 > 24h initialization period)

Fair enough then. I've spent long enough in the technical sides of the
computer & electronics industries that I'm afraid I'm in the habit of
assuming that people don't follow the instructions, or even read them,
so please don't take my response personally.

Taking that into account, I'd be betting on either a bad battery spring,
or a faulty battery. (There are plenty of other possible causes, but
those would be the big ones.)

 > - I could get the camera switched on in view mode and battery
 > indicator showed three out of three bars (i.e relatively close
 > to full).

Unfortunately, battery indicators are horribly inaccurate, especially
with L-Ions. The only way to be absolutely sure that a L-Ion battery is
holding a full charge is to discharge it almost completely, put it on a
trickle charge for a couple of days, then time how long it takes to run
flat under a measured load. NiMh cells aren't quite that bad, but not
far from it.

 >Anyway, thanks for the suggestion!

No problem - Even if it wasn't useful to you, it might help convince
other people that it's a good idea to take the manual seriously.

 > robert - eagerly awaiting the replacement
 >
 >
 >PS: I let you know how the other one does.

Please do, I'd be interested to know the outcome.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Problems with Kyocera SL400R 

"Lionel" <nop.DeleteThis@alt.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:u546o0luehoh72h82ve7pcn4emh89dmjlc@4ax.com...
 > Kibo informs me that "Robert Klemme" <bob.news.DeleteThis@gmx.net> stated that:
 >
  >>"Lionel" <nop.DeleteThis@alt.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
   >>> My bet is that they'll cycle his battery, find that the camera then
   >>> works correctly.
  >>
  >>Although they might, because the error surfaces only from time to time,
 >
 > I hope you made a point of mentioning this to them, because otherwise
 > it's entirely possible that they won't leave it on test for long enough
 > to make the fault show up, & you'll get it back with a snotty note
 > telling you that there's nothing wrong with it.

Of course. I've worked in technical service (printers, displays, PC's...)
to know how important a detailed error description is.

While we're at it and nobody else listens... The ugliest case I had was a
printer with an embedded writer for magnetic stripes on savings books. The
writer kept moving back and forth even without a book in there. I changed
every part of that bastard but in the end it turned out that they had two
power circuits there, the printer was alone on his circuit and that was the
one with small short power outages. So the damn thing was perfectly ok, but
it did a reset once in a while because it got powered down and up so fast
you couldn't notice. Superfluous to mention that it took me quite some time
to discover that...

  >> I
  >>bet against this. Reasons:
  >>
  >> - Battery was initally fully charged according to instructions
  >> (fortunately only about 3 hrs required for a full load and no
  >> 24h initialization period)
 >
 > Fair enough then. I've spent long enough in the technical sides of the
 > computer & electronics industries that I'm afraid I'm in the habit of
 > assuming that people don't follow the instructions, or even read them,
 > so please don't take my response personally.

No offense taken. I know that I'm a bit old fashioned about reading
manuals.

Btw: interestingly enough this camera comes only with a quick start manual
(with all the details about battery charging and the basics of taking
pictures) and another lightweight manual with a bit more descriptions but
not really thorough. For example: this camera features "mode lock" which is
supposed to be described in a table I couldn't make much sense of yet. I
seems to have to do with keeping certain settings after switching off, but
whether "lock" or "unlock" keeps the settings wasn't totally clear. Also, I
couldn't match the manual with the camera's behavior. I'll take a second
attempt at uncovering this mystery once I get the replacement...

 > Taking that into account, I'd be betting on either a bad battery spring,
 > or a faulty battery. (There are plenty of other possible causes, but
 > those would be the big ones.)
 >
  >> - I could get the camera switched on in view mode and battery
  >> indicator showed three out of three bars (i.e relatively close
  >> to full).
 >
 > Unfortunately, battery indicators are horribly inaccurate, especially
 > with L-Ions.

Good to know that. I would not have expected exact measurements but a
certain degree of accuracy... I'll keep an eye on it.

 > The only way to be absolutely sure that a L-Ion battery is
 > holding a full charge is to discharge it almost completely, put it on a
 > trickle charge for a couple of days, then time how long it takes to run
 > flat under a measured load. NiMh cells aren't quite that bad, but not
 > far from it.

Hm, but then you only know the curremt capacity of the battery, i.e., you
can detect whether the actual capacity matches the nominal capacity. And
you have an upper bound of the charging time for full load.

  >>Anyway, thanks for the suggestion!
 >
 > No problem - Even if it wasn't useful to you, it might help convince
 > other people that it's a good idea to take the manual seriously.

Yeah. Folks, listen to what he says: RTFM!

  >> robert - eagerly awaiting the replacement
  >>
  >>
  >>PS: I let you know how the other one does.
 >
 > Please do, I'd be interested to know the outcome.

Me too. I guess I'll have to wait until Wednesday or even later. *sigh*
Good to know that my Powershot G5 still works like a breeze.

Kind regards

robert<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Problems with Kyocera SL400R 

I have SL300R since May. No such problem. Only problem is when memory card
is almost full, then sometime block. My card is 128 MB. Recommend larger
High Speed card to take advantage of 640x480 30fps video and 3.5 pictures
per second fast shooting until memory card is full.

Regards

Dragan


"Robert Klemme" <bob.news RemoveThis @gmx.net> wrote in message
news:2ucg2nF26rir9U1@uni-berlin.de...
 >
 > "Woodchuck Bill" <bwr607 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
 > news:Xns95904B140DEB1bswr607h4@130.133.1.4...
  > > "Robert Klemme" <bob.news RemoveThis @gmx.net> wrote in
  > > news:2uc4p5F25mi8aU1@uni-berlin.de:
  > >
   > > > I bought the named model the other day. After several hours of error
   > > > free operation, the camera started to switch off immediately after
   > > > switch on. The error persists a while and seems to go away if I leave
   > > > it alone for some time. It doesn't seem to be a power supply problem
   > > > as the battery is far from empty. I consider this a manufacturing
   > > > error.
  > >
  > > Return it.
 >
 > That's what I've done this morning. (Mailed it.)
 >
  > > What is the refund/exchange policy of the merchant?
 >
 > I'll get a replacement (European consumer protection laws are in effect,
 > I'm in Germany; refunding is also an option).
 >
 > I was mainly interested to hear whether others have had the same issue
 > with these models. I'm sorry if that hasn't become clear enough from my
 > post.
 >
 > Thx anyway!
 >
 > Kind regards
 >
 > robert
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Problems with Kyocera SL400R 

"Vucko" <dr_vucko RemoveThis @hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:2ui5ppF28jthpU1@uni-berlin.de...
 >I have SL300R since May. No such problem. Only problem is when memory card
 > is almost full, then sometime block.

Thanks for the feedback!

 > My card is 128 MB. Recommend larger
 > High Speed card to take advantage of 640x480 30fps video and 3.5 pictures
 > per second fast shooting until memory card is full.

Well, guess what: that's the exact reason why I got me a SanDisk Ultra II
512MB card. Good to know, that I picked the right one. Thanks for that
reassurement!

Kind regards

robert<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Problems with Kyocera SL400R 

"Robert Klemme" <bob.news.RemoveThis@gmx.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:2ueen3F294l8dU1@uni-berlin.de...
 >
 > "Woodchuck Bill" <bwr607.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
 > news:Xns9590549A97A31bswr607h4@130.133.1.4...
  > > "Robert Klemme" <bob.news.RemoveThis@gmx.net> wrote in news:2ucg2nF26rir9U1@uni-
  > > berlin.de:
  > >
   > > > I was mainly interested to hear whether others have had the same
issue
   > > > with these models. I'm sorry if that hasn't become clear enough
from
 > my
   > > > post.
  > >
  > > It was clear. I was just making a general suggestion. Please keep
in
  > > mind that this newsgroup was created less than 24 hours ago, and it
has
 > yet
  > > to appear on many servers. The traffic will pick up in due time.
 >
 > Yeah, true.
 >
  > > Good luck with your replacement camera!
 >
 > Thanks a lot!

I now have the replacement for a week. No problems any more. It's a
really cute little cam. For me it's the ideal carry everywhere cam.

Kind regards

robert<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Problems with Kyocera SL400R 

"Robert Klemme" <bob.news RemoveThis @gmx.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:2ueen3F294l8dU1@uni-berlin.de...
 >
 > "Woodchuck Bill" <bwr607 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
 > news:Xns9590549A97A31bswr607h4@130.133.1.4...
  >> "Robert Klemme" <bob.news RemoveThis @gmx.net> wrote in news:2ucg2nF26rir9U1@uni-
  >> berlin.de:
  >>
   >> > I was mainly interested to hear whether others have had the same issue
   >> > with these models. I'm sorry if that hasn't become clear enough from
 > my
   >> > post.
  >>
  >> It was clear. I was just making a general suggestion. Please keep in
  >> mind that this newsgroup was created less than 24 hours ago, and it has
 > yet
  >> to appear on many servers. The traffic will pick up in due time.
 >
 > Yeah, true.
 >
  >> Good luck with your replacement camera!

So now I have the replacement for a while and it does not show any sign
of strange behavior like the other one. So all is well. )

Kind regards

robert<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Problems with Kyocera SL400R