When to Press the Button of the Timer?

Keith Tapscott wrote,

 > Which type of enlarger do you use, diffuse light or condenser?

I want to practice developing for at least 10 rolls of film before plan
to buy a enlarger. I heard condenser enlarger is more suitable than
diffuse for 35mm negs, is it true?

-
narke<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Peter Irwin,

Thanks for your advice, which lead me to a more clear way in
considering of enlarger choice. I think I now can not switch to a
medium format, since I only got a 135 SLR camera and I think hand a big
camera wandering on the streat is not easy for me.

-
narke
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narke <steven.RemoveThis@lczmsoft.com> wrote:
 > Keith Tapscott wrote,
 >
  >> Which type of enlarger do you use, diffuse light or condenser?
 >
 > I want to practice developing for at least 10 rolls of film before plan
 > to buy a enlarger. I heard condenser enlarger is more suitable than
 > diffuse for 35mm negs, is it true?
 >

It's not really a big deal one way or the other.

Condenser enlargers show dust on the negative more than
diffusion enlargers.

Condenser enlargers produce prints which are around one
grade higher contrast for the same grade of paper.

You can produce practically identical prints with each type
of enlarger if you use one grade harder paper with the
diffusion enlarger.

People who use condenser enlargers tend to develop their film
to a lower contrast (shorter development time) to compensate
for the contrast increase. This arguably results in finer
grain from the same materials. Reduced development requires
a slight increase in exposure, so it is arguable that the
speed/grain relationship hasn't changed much.

The most important factor affecting grain is the film you use.
All of the other factors (developer choice, development contrast,
exposure, etc.) can all add up to be quite significant, but the
inherent grain of the film is still dominant.

I use a condenser enlarger, but I have used diffusion enlargers
and I wouldn't make a big deal about it one way or the other.
I would suggest that you look for an enlarger that can do
medium format. Medium format does not have to be expensive,
and the larger negative offers a major advantage in the
quality of prints you will be able to make.

Peter.
--
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In article <1112751986.515157.134740 RemoveThis @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
  "narke" <steven RemoveThis @lczmsoft.com> writes:
 >
 > I also get a top cap (red), so it supports agiatation as well as
 > swiring. It is the leak problem which make me double if or not I
 > really need to agitate by inversion for I am afraid the leak solution
 > will harm my hand.

Some people are extremely allergic to certain photo processing chemicals,
but others aren't. You could always try inversion agitation and if you
experience undue irritation, take one or more of four steps (or maybe more
I'm not considering):

1) Change chemistry. Some developers are marketed as being less likely to
produce allergic reactions than others. I don't recall which developer
components are the most likely allergens, though, or which specific
developers are the least likely to cause problems. I'm sure you can
turn this up in a Web search pretty easily, if somebody doesn't
volunteer the information.

2) Wear rubber gloves. This should certainly be sufficient for dealing
with a leaky tank.

3) Replace the tank. I've actually got two: a plastic AP tank and a
generic stainless steel tank. The latter doesn't leak at all, but I've
had problems getting the reels loaded, so I've not used it much. I
don't know which brands are the most leak-resistant.

4) Switch to agitation via the rod. Of course, you might still
occasionally get a bit of chemistry on your hands when mixing the
chemicals, pouring them out of the tank, etc., so if you're violently
allergic, you might want to do #1 and/or #2, as well.

Of course, doing #4 from the outset is perfectly reasonable. I don't get
the impression that most people have such strong allergic reactions to the
chemicals that it's cause for serious concern, though.

--
Rod Smith, rodsmith RemoveThis @rodsbooks.com
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narke <steven DeleteThis @lczmsoft.com> wrote:
 > Peter Irwin,
 >
 > Thanks for your advice, which lead me to a more clear way in
 > considering of enlarger choice. I think I now can not switch to a
 > medium format, since I only got a 135 SLR camera and I think hand a big
 > camera wandering on the street is not easy for me.
 >
You might be surprised. Old TLRs are remarkably handy
cameras. You can get quite a nice one for less than $100.
Old folders are extremely compact, and may also be had cheaply.
If you get an enlarger that can handle 6x6 or larger, you leave
an option open which you may wish to take sometime.

Peter.
--
pirwin DeleteThis @ktb.net<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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In article <1112772154.059219.149660.DeleteThis@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
  "narke" <steven.DeleteThis@lczmsoft.com> writes:
 >
 > Thanks for your advice, which lead me to a more clear way in
 > considering of enlarger choice. I think I now can not switch to a
 > medium format, since I only got a 135 SLR camera and I think hand a big
 > camera wandering on the streat is not easy for me.

Some medium format cameras aren't all that much larger than a typical 35mm
SLR, and with photographers switching to digital, used film-based
equipment can be quite a bargain if you intend to stick with film. What's
more, in terms of enlarger choice, an enlarger capable of doing medium
format isn't likely to be much, if any, more expensive than a 35mm-only
enlarger, so there's little reason to tie your hands on this score.

That said, the decline in popularity of film also means that used
enlargers are inexpensive, so if you buy a 35mm-only enlarger now and then
get into medium format later, it shouldn't cost too much to replace your
enlarger.

All of this relates more to used equipment than to new equipment. The new
stuff can still be quite pricey.

--
Rod Smith, rodsmith.DeleteThis@rodsbooks.com
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rodsbooks.com" target="_blank">http://www.rodsbooks.com</a>
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: When to Press the Button of the Timer? 

In article <1112752222.487271.86120 DeleteThis @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
narke <steven DeleteThis @lczmsoft.com> wrote:
  >> I don't like replenished systems but they work OK if you process
 >approximately 50-100 rolls of film per month (more is better). Less
 >than
 >that you don't get the full benefit of economy nor to you have the
 >throughput to ensure consistent results.

 >I agree with above. I will not reuse developer. Another question, do
 >you reuse fixer? I am going to use F-5, but still not decide whether
 >or not shall I reuse it. Do you and other guys have any suggestion?

In general you may reuse fixer a certain number of times. Edwal makes some
drops that turn cloudy when the fixer is saturated and thus no-good, so you
can test before you use it. Another method is to check it using your film
leader or some similar strip of film: fixer should clear the film leader
fairly quickly (a little agitation helps), and when the clearing time is
doubled you should throw away the fixer. As with everything your mileage
may vary and there are lots of opinions on the net: GIYF. Also in the USA anyway
it is illegal to dispose of used fixer down the drain; other locations may have
similar environmental protections. I have to drive my bottle of old fixer
down to a hazardous waste disposal site.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Rod Smith worte:

 > ...

I select #2 ^_^<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Travis Porco wrote:

 > Another method is to check it using your film
leader or some similar strip of film: fixer should clear the film
leader
fairly quickly (a little agitation helps),

You mentioned use a film leader to test. Should I use a exposed one or
unexposed one? I can not image that exposed film can be clear by the
fixer, I think (if right) the function of the fixer is to clear the
unexposed silvers stay on the film base. Am I right?

-
narke<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Travis Porco wrote:

 > Another method is to check it using your film
leader or some similar strip of film: fixer should clear the film
leader
fairly quickly (a little agitation helps),

You mentioned use a film leader to test. Should I use a exposed one or
unexposed one? I can not image that exposed film can be clear by the
fixer, I think (if right) the function of the fixer is to clear the
unexposed silvers stay on the film base. Am I right?

-
narke<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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In article <1112858781.014263.100040 DeleteThis @l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
narke <steven DeleteThis @lczmsoft.com> wrote:
 >Travis Porco wrote:

  >> Another method is to check it using your film
 >leader or some similar strip of film: fixer should clear the film
 >leader
 >fairly quickly (a little agitation helps),

 >You mentioned use a film leader to test. Should I use a exposed one or
 >unexposed one? I can not image that exposed film can be clear by the
 >fixer, I think (if right) the function of the fixer is to clear the
 >unexposed silvers stay on the film base. Am I right?

An exposed leader. I just use the piece I cut off before loading the 35 mm
film onto the spool; it's already been exposed by just ambient light. The
fixer will clear it fairly rapidly and the cleared strip will look like any
piece of more or less clear plastic-like stuff. It helps to jostle it around
a little; I just dip this cut off leader in the fixer and swirl it around
for around a minute or two until it clears the film.

I don't like to use a large piece, since there's no point in
it (needlessly exhausting the fixer a little more). The clearing test is
somewhat better than the drops since fixer can go bad even if it has no silver
in it. I bought a bottle of fixer from a chain photography store in Berkeley,
and I was suspicious since the bottle had instructions for fixing Panatomix X
on it. I thought maybe it might be OK ("or they wouldn't sell it, would they?")
but in fact it would not clear a film leader. So it would have tested fine with
the drops even though it was worthless. The other thing with drops is
this: what if the fixer seems OK with the drops at the beginning, but is bad
after you fix one more tank of film? You'll probably have to go back and re-fix
the rolls just to be safe. Still, I use drops anyway once in a while.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Travis Porco <tcporco.TakeThisOut@transbay.net> wrote:
 > In article <1112858781.014263.100040.TakeThisOut@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
 > narke <steven.TakeThisOut@lczmsoft.com> wrote:
 >
  >>You mentioned use a film leader to test. Should I use a exposed one or
  >>unexposed one? I can not image that exposed film can be clear by the
  >>fixer, I think (if right) the function of the fixer is to clear the
  >>unexposed silvers stay on the film base. Am I right?
 >
 > An exposed leader. I just use the piece I cut off before loading the 35 mm
 > film onto the spool; it's already been exposed by just ambient light. The
 > fixer will clear it fairly rapidly and the cleared strip will look like any
 > piece of more or less clear plastic-like stuff. It helps to jostle it around
 > a little; I just dip this cut off leader in the fixer and swirl it around
 > for around a minute or two until it clears the film.
 >
If you want to use the clearing text to determine fixing time.
It is a good idea to soak the leader in water or stop bath
for a few minutes before putting it in the fixer. Film which
is already wet will take a bit longer to clear than film which
is dry before it is put in the fixer. The same is true for film
development, a pre-soak actually requires an increase in
development time. Film should be fixed for about three times
the clearing time to be safe.

When the fixer takes twice as long as fresh fixer to clear film
it it exhausted. I'm a little cautious about overusing fixer,
so I discard my first bath when it fails to fix in half the total
fixing time. For me this is a little over 1 1/2 times the clearing
time for fresh film. Working the first bath extra hard just decreases
the life of the second bath when it becomes the new first bath.

Peter.
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On 5 Apr 2005 18:57:18 -0700, "narke" <steven DeleteThis @lczmsoft.com> wrote:

 >MIke King wrote,
 >
  >> re: when to start the timer. I pour then hit the button and pour out
 >when
 >the time starts, easy for me since I use a Unicolor rotary system. It
 >matters less HOW you choose to do it and matters more on HOW CONSISTENT
 >you
 >do it.
 >
 >now I decide hit the button and pour in, when the timer end and beep I
 >start to pour out, that's more possible to get consistence to me.
 >
 >Thanks.
 >
 >-
 >narke


apr1305 from Lloyd Erlick,

Over time, and numerous film developing sessions, you will find
results that please you best. Keeping notes as you progress helps a
lot. Once you find your preferred method, stick to it consistently.
The only real mistake is to fail to provide yourself a means of doing
the next processing run the same way as the last.

regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
voice: 416-686-0326
email: portrait DeleteThis @heylloyd.com
net: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.heylloyd.com" target="_blank">www.heylloyd.com</a>
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