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Photographic bight shiny objects?

 
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roy1

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Since: Nov 14, 2004
Posts: 56



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:38 pm
Post subject: Photographic bight shiny objects?
Archived from groups: rec>photo>digital>slr-systems (more info?)

I've got to shoot some sailing trophies -- highly polished silver with
lettering engraved on them. The lettering needs to be readable in the
photos.

Any non-obvious tricks to get good lighting without lots of glare and
reflections off the polished surfaces?

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Floyd L. Davidson

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Since: Nov 03, 2007
Posts: 1063



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Photographic bight shiny objects? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Roy Smith <roy DeleteThis @panix.com> wrote:
>I've got to shoot some sailing trophies -- highly polished silver with
>lettering engraved on them. The lettering needs to be readable in the
>photos.
>
>Any non-obvious tricks to get good lighting without lots of glare and
>reflections off the polished surfaces?

A ring light might help, if the surface with the
lettering is flat. Tilt the lettered surface so that
reflections from the ring light are not straight back at
the camera. However, with curved surfaces there isn't
much hope of avoiding at least some glare from the
light.

In that case, consider multiple lights, and also a
"light box" or "light tent". The trick with multiple
lights is to position them such that the glare does not
detract from the object. Generally two lights will do,
and one of those will be at very close to perpendicular
to the axis of the lense. Placement of the other
depends on the glare. With a light box/tent, the idea
is to get diffuse light from every direction, thus
reducing the contrast of the glare.

I prefer a light box, simply because they are so easy to
construct from cardboard boxes. If your trophies are 4
feet tall though, it might be a problem... but there
are solutions for that too.

Do a google search on "light-box glare photography", and
it will provide several examples.

However, in a quick review I didn't see any that showed
the particular construction that I prefer. So I've
resurrected something I had on my web page a couple
years ago for a short time just for one individual to
look at. I dumped about half of it (it was actually to
compare several different alternatives to expensive
"macro lenses", and showed several compartive images),
and have just left the comparison between a ring light
and a light box, plus some images of the light box
showing how it works.

http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson/dime/

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd DeleteThis @apaflo.com

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davidjl

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Since: Jun 03, 2004
Posts: 1804



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Photographic bight shiny objects? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Roy Smith" <roy.DeleteThis@panix.com> wrote:

> I've got to shoot some sailing trophies -- highly polished silver with
> lettering engraved on them. The lettering needs to be readable in the
> photos.
>
> Any non-obvious tricks to get good lighting without lots of glare and
> reflections off the polished surfaces?

Try a polarizer. Don't expect wonders but it might reduce some of the
reflections somewhat.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
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Chris Malcolm

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Since: Nov 03, 2007
Posts: 447



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Photographic bight shiny objects? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Roy Smith <roy.TakeThisOut@panix.com> wrote:
> I've got to shoot some sailing trophies -- highly polished silver with
> lettering engraved on them. The lettering needs to be readable in the
> photos.

> Any non-obvious tricks to get good lighting without lots of glare and
> reflections off the polished surfaces?

Use small point sources of light, such as low voltage tungsten halogen
bulbs with no reflectors, in combination with a very wide diffuse
lighting such as in a light box, or from some large reflecting or
diffusing panels. Adjust to taste Smile

--
Chris Malcolm cam.TakeThisOut@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
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roy1

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Since: Nov 14, 2004
Posts: 56



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Photographic bight shiny objects? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <87bq6muarn.fld RemoveThis @apaflo.com>,
floyd RemoveThis @apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:

> However, in a quick review I didn't see any that showed
> the particular construction that I prefer. So I've
> resurrected something I had on my web page a couple
> years ago for a short time just for one individual to
> look at. I dumped about half of it (it was actually to
> compare several different alternatives to expensive
> "macro lenses", and showed several compartive images),
> and have just left the comparison between a ring light
> and a light box, plus some images of the light box
> showing how it works.
>
> http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson/dime/

Thanks for that! I need to scale it up a bit (these are maybe 24 inches
high), but the concept looks pretty straight forward.
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tomm42

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Since: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 81



(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:29 am
Post subject: Re: Photographic bight shiny objects? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Feb 11, 10:39 pm, Roy Smith <r....TakeThisOut@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <87bq6muarn.....TakeThisOut@apaflo.com>,
> fl....TakeThisOut@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
>
> > However, in a quick review I didn't see any that showed
> > the particular construction that I prefer. So I've
> > resurrected something I had on my web page a couple
> > years ago for a short time just for one individual to
> > look at. I dumped about half of it (it was actually to
> > compare several different alternatives to expensive
> > "macro lenses", and showed several compartive images),
> > and have just left the comparison between a ring light
> > and a light box, plus some images of the light box
> > showing how it works.
>
> > http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson/dime/
>
> Thanks for that! I need to scale it up a bit (these are maybe 24 inches
> high), but the concept looks pretty straight forward.


Tenting is the answer, large frames with white translucent material
on them may be the answer for large objects (Light Forms). Get the
light source larger than the object, put a flash or a continuous light
source behind the frame. Keep the camera from reflecting off the
subject. A polarizer might help, with the above set up, but if your
light source is not bright enough it does subtract 2 stops of light.

Tom

Tom
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ozcvgtt02

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Since: Dec 13, 2004
Posts: 840



(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:20 am
Post subject: Re: Photographic bight shiny objects? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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David J. Littleboy <davidjl RemoveThis @gol.com> wrote:
> "Roy Smith" <roy RemoveThis @panix.com> wrote:

>> I've got to shoot some sailing trophies -- highly polished silver with
>> lettering engraved on them. The lettering needs to be readable in the
>> photos.

>> Any non-obvious tricks to get good lighting without lots of glare and
>> reflections off the polished surfaces?

> Try a polarizer. Don't expect wonders but it might reduce some of the
> reflections somewhat.

Polarizers only work on non-metallic reflecting surfaces,
which silver isn't.

-Wolfgang
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dave

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Since: Jul 27, 2007
Posts: 4



(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:36 am
Post subject: Re: Photographic bight shiny objects? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 19:38:46 -0500, Roy Smith <roy RemoveThis @panix.com> wrote:

>I've got to shoot some sailing trophies -- highly polished silver with
>lettering engraved on them. The lettering needs to be readable in the
>photos.
>
>Any non-obvious tricks to get good lighting without lots of glare and
>reflections off the polished surfaces?

You need a macro studio set up. There a ton of folding sets for
$60-$100 or you can make your own for next to nothing. Search on
"macro studio" for plans.

For lights I use small battery slave strobes ($20 from Ritz or Wolf)
triggered by on camera flash with a water bomb defuser.
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Rita Berkowitz

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Since: Jan 06, 2008
Posts: 296



(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Photographic bight shiny objects? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Rita Berkowitz

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Since: Jan 06, 2008
Posts: 296



(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Photographic bight shiny objects? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Floyd L. Davidson

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Since: Nov 03, 2007
Posts: 1063



(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Photographic bight shiny objects? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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____ <internetphobic.RemoveThis@deletedmail.com> wrote:
>In article <uh8885-85v.ln1.RemoveThis@ID-52418.user.berlin.de>,
> Wolfgang Weisselberg <ozcvgtt02.RemoveThis@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Polarizers only work on non-metallic reflecting surfaces,
>> which silver isn't.
>
>I disagree.

First, reflections from metal surfaces are not polarized,
and polarizing filter will *not* have any effect.

However, just because the item is made from silver does
not mean the reflection is from a metalic surface. If
it has _any_ kind of coating on it, the polarizing
filter will have some effect. Hence if the surface has
been polished, for example...

And that is exactly what the OP needs to consider, if a
polarizing filter is to be used. Almost anything that
provides a "clear" coat will also allow the filter to
work.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd.RemoveThis@apaflo.com
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mjcoon

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Since: Jan 08, 2005
Posts: 60



(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Photographic bight shiny objects? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
> Polarizers only work on non-metallic reflecting surfaces,
> which silver isn't.

I happen to have a silver-plated trophy and a polariser to hand; it works
for me! Can you cite a contrary scientific source, please?

Mike.
--
If reply address = connectfee, add an r because it is free not fee.
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user

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Since: Dec 31, 2007
Posts: 133



(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Photographic bight shiny objects? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <uh8885-85v.ln1.DeleteThis@ID-52418.user.berlin.de>,
Wolfgang Weisselberg <ozcvgtt02.DeleteThis@sneakemail.com> wrote:

>
> Polarizers only work on non-metallic reflecting surfaces,
> which silver isn't.
>
> -Wolfgang

I disagree.

--
Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.
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mark.thomas.7

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Since: Jul 31, 2006
Posts: 328



(Msg. 14) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 2:38 am
Post subject: Re: Photographic bight shiny objects? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Feb 12, 8:21 pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg <ozcvgt....RemoveThis@sneakemail.com>
wrote:
> David J. Littleboy <davi....RemoveThis@gol.com> wrote:
>
> > "Roy Smith" <r....RemoveThis@panix.com> wrote:
> >> I've got to shoot some sailing trophies -- highly polished silver with
> >> lettering engraved on them. The lettering needs to be readable in the
> >> photos.
> >> Any non-obvious tricks to get good lighting without lots of glare and
> >> reflections off the polished surfaces?
> > Try a polarizer. Don't expect wonders but it might reduce some of the
> > reflections somewhat.
>
> Polarizers only work on non-metallic reflecting surfaces,
> which silver isn't.
>
> -Wolfgang

It is true that metallic surfaces cause *little* polarisation... But
components of the light that falls on the metallic surface may
*already* be polarised. That is why the polariser may still have a
significant effect. However, to be useful, it would be best to
combine a polariser on the lens with a polarised screen over the light
source/s as well...
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Toby

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Since: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 51



(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:47 am
Post subject: Re: Photographic bight shiny objects? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Floyd L. Davidson" <floyd.TakeThisOut@apaflo.com> wrote in message
news:87abm5sk82.fld@apaflo.com...
> ____ <internetphobic.TakeThisOut@deletedmail.com> wrote:
>>In article <uh8885-85v.ln1.TakeThisOut@ID-52418.user.berlin.de>,
>> Wolfgang Weisselberg <ozcvgtt02.TakeThisOut@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Polarizers only work on non-metallic reflecting surfaces,
>>> which silver isn't.
>>
>>I disagree.
>
> First, reflections from metal surfaces are not polarized,
> and polarizing filter will *not* have any effect.
>
> However, just because the item is made from silver does
> not mean the reflection is from a metalic surface. If
> it has _any_ kind of coating on it, the polarizing
> filter will have some effect. Hence if the surface has
> been polished, for example...
>
> And that is exactly what the OP needs to consider, if a
> polarizing filter is to be used. Almost anything that
> provides a "clear" coat will also allow the filter to
> work.

One option that will help is to polarize the light source(s) and then put a
polarizer on the camera at 90 degrees to the angle of polarization of the
lights. Another is to use a light tent or big softbox to minimize point
reflections and objects reflected in the polished plate.

Toby

Toby
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