Nikon ED Lenses versus G Lenses

"Sandy Bloom, Ph.D." <sbloom DeleteThis @new.rr.com> wrote in message
news:KfxBf.37103$0e.26486@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Do you think the quality difference between Nikon "ED" and "G" lenses are
> worth the price difference? The ED lenses are touted to be better, and
> they
> are certainly heavier. They seem to have more glass. I am leaning heavily
> toward buying the "ED"'s.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sandy

The question is really only relevant to, I think, one lens- the 70-300, of
which there are G and ED versions- the G lacks an aperture ring and ED
elements, whereas the ED has both. I've seen some awful results off of the G
lens- then again, the ED doesn't seem too stellar either. Nikon don't have
"series" lenses- the top-end 70-200mm is both ED and G and I don't think
anyone is suggesting that lens is a budget item. That said, the 85 f1.4
isn't touted as ED or G, and is a phenomenal lens.

Martin.
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon ED Lenses versus G Lenses 

"Martin Francis" <mcsalty RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dr6c59$gdi$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Sandy Bloom, Ph.D." <sbloom RemoveThis @new.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:KfxBf.37103$0e.26486@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>> Do you think the quality difference between Nikon "ED" and "G" lenses are
>> worth the price difference? The ED lenses are touted to be better, and
>> they
>> are certainly heavier. They seem to have more glass. I am leaning heavily
>> toward buying the "ED"'s.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Sandy
>
> The question is really only relevant to, I think, one lens- the 70-300, of
> which there are G and ED versions- the G lacks an aperture ring and ED
> elements, whereas the ED has both. I've seen some awful results off of the
> G lens- then again, the ED doesn't seem too stellar either. Nikon don't
> have "series" lenses- the top-end 70-200mm is both ED and G and I don't
> think anyone is suggesting that lens is a budget item. That said, the 85
> f1.4 isn't touted as ED or G, and is a phenomenal lens.
>
> Martin.

> As you said, most people ask this question about the 70-300. I think the
> ED has a better lens mount and may be built better, but neither gets rave
> reviews. I think this came up here awhile back, and if I remember
> correctly both lenses had the same elements in the same grouping. Nikon
> makes better zoom lenses in that range, but they ain't cheap. You might
> try hitting your neighborhood camera store and shooting a few shots with
> both lenses to see if they meet your requirements, and to see if you can
> see a difference between the two.
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon ED Lenses versus G Lenses 

"Sheldon" <sheldon.DeleteThis@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote in message
news:bLKdnR3wvYm--kXenZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Martin Francis" <mcsalty.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:dr6c59$gdi$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > "Sandy Bloom, Ph.D." <sbloom.DeleteThis@new.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:KfxBf.37103$0e.26486@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >> Do you think the quality difference between Nikon "ED" and "G" lenses
are
> >> worth the price difference? The ED lenses are touted to be better, and
> >> they
> >> are certainly heavier. They seem to have more glass. I am leaning
heavily
> >> toward buying the "ED"'s.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Sandy
> >
> > The question is really only relevant to, I think, one lens- the 70-300,
of
> > which there are G and ED versions- the G lacks an aperture ring and ED
> > elements, whereas the ED has both. I've seen some awful results off of
the
> > G lens- then again, the ED doesn't seem too stellar either. Nikon don't
> > have "series" lenses- the top-end 70-200mm is both ED and G and I don't
> > think anyone is suggesting that lens is a budget item. That said, the 85
> > f1.4 isn't touted as ED or G, and is a phenomenal lens.
> >
> > Martin.
>
> > As you said, most people ask this question about the 70-300. I think
the
> > ED has a better lens mount and may be built better, but neither gets
rave
> > reviews. I think this came up here awhile back, and if I remember
> > correctly both lenses had the same elements in the same grouping. Nikon
> > makes better zoom lenses in that range, but they ain't cheap. You might
> > try hitting your neighborhood camera store and shooting a few shots with
> > both lenses to see if they meet your requirements, and to see if you can
> > see a difference between the two.
>
>
Can anyone suggest another AF brand Nikon mount lens that would be better
quality?

Sandy
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon ED Lenses versus G Lenses 

"Sandy Bloom, Ph.D." <sbloom DeleteThis @new.rr.com> wrote in message
news:CetCf.37372$0e.5204@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> Can anyone suggest another AF brand Nikon mount lens that would be better
> quality?
>
> Sandy
>
>

The older Nikon 75-300mm f/4.5-5.6 AF was better than the current 70/75-300
offerings.
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon ED Lenses versus G Lenses 

Paul Furman <paul- RemoveThis @-edgehill.net> wrote:

> The D200 allows metering with old unchipped lenses by manually entering
> the widest f/stop in the menu, as I understand. I think aperture &
> shutter priority modes should work with that information.

Aperture priority works; shutter priority and programmed auto are not
available because the camera cannot set the lens aperture.

--
Jeremy | jeremy RemoveThis @exit109.com
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon ED Lenses versus G Lenses 

Jeremy Nixon wrote:

> Paul Furman <paul- RemoveThis @-edgehill.net> wrote:
>
>>The D200 allows metering with old unchipped lenses by manually entering
>>the widest f/stop in the menu, as I understand. I think aperture &
>>shutter priority modes should work with that information.
>
> Aperture priority works; shutter priority and programmed auto are not
> available because the camera cannot set the lens aperture.

So then you are stuck with wide open as the only aperture? As I
understand, unchipped AI lenses need the chip to tell what the max
aperture is being stopped down (and the focal length?) from but the D200
allows you to enter that in the camera.
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon ED Lenses versus G Lenses 

"Paul Furman" <paul-.RemoveThis@-edgehill.net> wrote in message
news:HNSdnRvJo_rVnkDenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Jeremy Nixon wrote:
>
>> Paul Furman <paul-.RemoveThis@-edgehill.net> wrote:
>>
>>>The D200 allows metering with old unchipped lenses by manually entering
>>>the widest f/stop in the menu, as I understand. I think aperture &
>>>shutter priority modes should work with that information.
>>
>> Aperture priority works; shutter priority and programmed auto are not
>> available because the camera cannot set the lens aperture.
>
> So then you are stuck with wide open as the only aperture? As I
> understand, unchipped AI lenses need the chip to tell what the max
> aperture is being stopped down (and the focal length?) from but the D200
> allows you to enter that in the camera.

You're not stuck at wide open, because once you've set the lens info into
the menu (the D2-series and, apparently, the D200) you set the aperture on
the lens normally and the camera sets the shutter speed (in A mode) as it
normally would. As an example of this, the D2 will tell you the number of
stops away from wide open you are (in the top info LCD) as you vary the
aperture on the lens.
Bob
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon ED Lenses versus G Lenses 

Paul Furman <paul- RemoveThis @-edgehill.net> wrote:

> So then you are stuck with wide open as the only aperture? As I
> understand, unchipped AI lenses need the chip to tell what the max
> aperture is being stopped down (and the focal length?) from but the D200
> allows you to enter that in the camera.

No. The camera can't set the lens aperture, but you can set the aperture
on the lens. The camera needs to set the lens aperture for shutter priority
and program modes, and since it can't, you can't use those modes.

--
Jeremy | jeremy RemoveThis @exit109.com
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon ED Lenses versus G Lenses 

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 22:29:41 -0000, Jeremy Nixon <jeremy RemoveThis @exit109.com>
wrote:

>Paul Furman <paul- RemoveThis @-edgehill.net> wrote:
>
>> So then you are stuck with wide open as the only aperture? As I
>> understand, unchipped AI lenses need the chip to tell what the max
>> aperture is being stopped down (and the focal length?) from but the D200
>> allows you to enter that in the camera.
>
>No. The camera can't set the lens aperture, but you can set the aperture
>on the lens. The camera needs to set the lens aperture for shutter priority
>and program modes, and since it can't, you can't use those modes.

So, how does a G series lens work on a non-auto body? In computerese,
what is "the default setting?" Wide open? Completely stopped down?
Whatever setting it got last from an auto-body?

This is probably a way-out question: Can you short out two of the
metal control contacts that connect the lens to the body, as a way to
instructing the lens to use a given f-stop?

Father Kodak
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon ED Lenses versus G Lenses 

In article <e78Df.480531$ki.287542@pd7tw2no>,
Robert Brace <rlbrace.RemoveThis@shaw.ca> wrote:
>You're not stuck at wide open, because once you've set the lens info into
>the menu (the D2-series and, apparently, the D200) you set the aperture on
>the lens normally and the camera sets the shutter speed (in A mode) as it
>normally would. As an example of this, the D2 will tell you the number of
>stops away from wide open you are (in the top info LCD) as you vary the
>aperture on the lens.

For center-weighted exposure and for the spot meter, the camera doesn't
to know the actual aperture. The camera only needs to know the relative
position of the aperture ring compared to wide open. This is the way Ai
has always worked.

The only exception is that some low-end cameras, including the F80, and
the digital cameras derived from it, the D100, D70 and D50, cannot sense the
position of the aperture ring, but try to control the lens using the chip
inside the lens. Most Ai lenses don't have chip so this is not going to work.

However, for matrix metering, the camera does need to know the actual aperture.
Some of the early cameras with matrix metering, such as the FA and the F4
can get the aperture from a small bump in the lens mount.

Starting with the F5, Nikon doesn't do that anymore.

However, starting with the F6, you can enter the aperture manually.

So, if you can live with center-weighted or spot, don't need to enter the
aperture.

(At least that is the theory. I don't own an F6, D2X, or a D200).


--
That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
-- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon ED Lenses versus G Lenses 

Father Kodak <dont_bother.TakeThisOut@IDontCare.COM> wrote:

> So, how does a G series lens work on a non-auto body? In computerese,
> what is "the default setting?" Wide open? Completely stopped down?

If you mean a body that can't set the lens aperture, I don't know (I don't
have one to try it) but my guess is that, since those lenses are basically
just always set at minimum aperture, that they would be completely stopped
down at the time of exposure.

I get the feeling, though, that there may be some confusion here. Assuming
a normal AI or later lens, and a camera that supports them, the lens can
always be stopped down at the time of exposure to whatever aperture is
selected on the lens aperture ring -- even if the camera doesn't know what
aperture is selected. What the new bodies can't do is *select* the aperture
on an AI-S lens; that is, you can't dial in f/8 on the control dial on the
camera and have it work, and you can't put the camera into programmed auto
and have it work. You must set the aperture on the lens aperture ring.

This was *not* the case with older film bodies that were made for AI-S
lenses. They could have shutter-priority and programmed auto modes and
were able to set the lens aperture on AI-S lenses, provided that the lens
was set at minimum aperture. The new, digital cameras, despite being able
to use AI-S lenses and meter with them, cannot do this. The reason is
that the new cameras do not know the difference between AI and AI-S lenses,
and treat them the same.

> This is probably a way-out question: Can you short out two of the
> metal control contacts that connect the lens to the body, as a way to
> instructing the lens to use a given f-stop?

No. The electrical contacts aren't used for aperture setting.

--
Jeremy | jeremy.TakeThisOut@exit109.com
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon ED Lenses versus G Lenses 

Jeremy Nixon wrote:

> I get the feeling, though, that there may be some confusion here.

Yep, thanks for clarifying.

> Assuming
> a normal AI or later lens, and a camera that supports them, the lens can
> always be stopped down at the time of exposure to whatever aperture is
> selected on the lens aperture ring -- even if the camera doesn't know what
> aperture is selected.

But a D70 is incapable of metering, D200 can meter with these.

> What the new bodies can't do is *select* the aperture
> on an AI-S lens; that is, you can't dial in f/8 on the control dial on the
> camera and have it work, and you can't put the camera into programmed auto
> and have it work. You must set the aperture on the lens aperture ring.
>
> This was *not* the case with older film bodies that were made for AI-S
> lenses. They could have shutter-priority and programmed auto modes and
> were able to set the lens aperture on AI-S lenses, provided that the lens
> was set at minimum aperture.

OK so a D200 can stop down to what the ring is set to but nothing more.
It does seem a shame to omit this ability but I usually use aperture
priority anyways.

> The new, digital cameras, despite being able
> to use AI-S lenses and meter with them, cannot do this. The reason is
> that the new cameras do not know the difference between AI and AI-S lenses,
> and treat them the same.

So, AI is the 'oldest' technology and it's AI-S (the somewhat newer
versions) that don't work as well with the newest cameras? I've got an
AI-P 45mm lens which I beleieve is the equivalent of an AI with added
chip; it works on a D70.
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon ED Lenses versus G Lenses 

In article <11trbv1olc6kr06.RemoveThis@corp.supernews.com>,
Jeremy Nixon <jeremy.RemoveThis@exit109.com> wrote:
>Father Kodak <dont_bother.RemoveThis@IDontCare.COM> wrote:
>
>> So, how does a G series lens work on a non-auto body? In computerese,
>> what is "the default setting?" Wide open? Completely stopped down?
>
>If you mean a body that can't set the lens aperture, I don't know (I don't
>have one to try it) but my guess is that, since those lenses are basically
>just always set at minimum aperture, that they would be completely stopped
>down at the time of exposure.

Yes, that is right. I guess that if you mount them a couple of degrees
rotated (i.e. not fully mounted) you should be able to trick the lens into
operating wide open or even at intermediate apertures.

>This was *not* the case with older film bodies that were made for AI-S
>lenses. They could have shutter-priority and programmed auto modes and
>were able to set the lens aperture on AI-S lenses, provided that the lens
>was set at minimum aperture.

There are not that many cameras that can do program mode and shutter priority
mode with Ais lenses. The F4 doesn't do it. The FA does, but the FA also
does it with Ai lenses. (I think that program mode with Ais lenses is limited
to FA, FG, and the F301).

Of course, the F2 can do shutter priority with non-Ai lenses as well.

>The new, digital cameras, despite being able
>to use AI-S lenses and meter with them, cannot do this. The reason is
>that the new cameras do not know the difference between AI and AI-S lenses,
>and treat them the same.

I don't think there are any Nikon cameras that enable or disable
feature based on the distinction between Ai and Ais. With the exception
of selecting high-speed program modes automatically with longer Ais lenses.

>> This is probably a way-out question: Can you short out two of the
>> metal control contacts that connect the lens to the body, as a way to
>> instructing the lens to use a given f-stop?
>
>No. The electrical contacts aren't used for aperture setting.

If the electrical contacts are not used for setting the aperture, how
does a camera set the aperture on a G lens (or a CPU lens locked in
the smallest aperture)?


--
That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
-- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon ED Lenses versus G Lenses