Questions about Nikon CLS (Creative Lighting System)

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 >> Stay informed about: Questions about Nikon CLS (Creative Lighting System) 

On 2008-02-18 06:45:17 -0800, Roy Smith <roy RemoveThis @panix.com> said:

> I've started playing with the remote flash features of my D-200 (with an
> SB-600). It's a neat system, but a pain to configure.
>
> Each shot I took involved about 8 button presses to get back to the
> Commander Mode (e3) menu, select the right field, adjust the compensation,
> save it, then shoot. Worse, it involves two hands (and adjusting my grip
> on the camera) to first hit the Menu button, then operate the
> multi-selector. Is there a faster way to do this?

No. Plus, I find the buttons are difficult to push.

>
> I also noticed that the SB-600 allows 3 groups (A, B, and C), but the D-200
> only lets you control A and B. This isn't a problem for me (I don't own
> that many flash units), but it seems curious. Am I missing something, or
> do not all cameras have the ability to control all 3 groups?

In order to control three groups you need an SB-800 or SU-800.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about Nikon CLS (Creative Lighting System) 

On 2008-02-18 06:45:17 -0800, Roy Smith <roy.DeleteThis@panix.com> said:

> I've started playing with the remote flash features of my D-200 (with an
> SB-600). It's a neat system, but a pain to configure.
>
> Each shot I took involved about 8 button presses to get back to the
> Commander Mode (e3) menu, select the right field, adjust the compensation,
> save it, then shoot. Worse, it involves two hands (and adjusting my grip
> on the camera) to first hit the Menu button, then operate the
> multi-selector. Is there a faster way to do this?

There is one thing you can do to at least to make handling the flash
units easier: use Nikon SB-R200 strobes. These can only be used as CLS
slave units. Dials on the flash allow you to set which group it belongs
to and exposure compensation. You get two of them with the R1C1 Nikon
close-up lighting system, plus a SU-800 commander unit and lens mounts
for macro photography. But the SB-R200 will do a lot more than just
macro. You can mount these practically anywhere. Personally, I think
that Nikon should change the name of the kit to the Creative Lighting
System Studio Kit.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about Nikon CLS (Creative Lighting System) 

"C J Campbell" <christophercampbell DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2008021818171343658-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
> On 2008-02-18 06:45:17 -0800, Roy Smith <roy DeleteThis @panix.com> said:
>
>> I've started playing with the remote flash features of my D-200 (with an
>> SB-600). It's a neat system, but a pain to configure.
>>
>> Each shot I took involved about 8 button presses to get back to the
>> Commander Mode (e3) menu, select the right field, adjust the
>> compensation,
>> save it, then shoot. Worse, it involves two hands (and adjusting my grip
>> on the camera) to first hit the Menu button, then operate the
>> multi-selector. Is there a faster way to do this?
>
> No. Plus, I find the buttons are difficult to push.
>
>>
>> I also noticed that the SB-600 allows 3 groups (A, B, and C), but the
>> D-200
>> only lets you control A and B. This isn't a problem for me (I don't own
>> that many flash units), but it seems curious. Am I missing something, or
>> do not all cameras have the ability to control all 3 groups?
>
> In order to control three groups you need an SB-800 or SU-800.

Correct.

I'm not sure about the D200 menu, but with the D300 I put E3 in My Menu.
Just a few clicks and I change what I want. The buttons are very easy to
push. But again, that's the D300.


--
Sosumi
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about Nikon CLS (Creative Lighting System) 

On 2008-02-19 02:23:32 -0800, "Sosumi" <sosumi.RemoveThis@home.nl> said:

>
> "C J Campbell" <christophercampbell.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2008021818171343658-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
>> On 2008-02-18 06:45:17 -0800, Roy Smith <roy.RemoveThis@panix.com> said:
>>
>>> I've started playing with the remote flash features of my D-200 (with an
>>> SB-600). It's a neat system, but a pain to configure.
>>>
>>> Each shot I took involved about 8 button presses to get back to the
>>> Commander Mode (e3) menu, select the right field, adjust the
>>> compensation,
>>> save it, then shoot. Worse, it involves two hands (and adjusting my grip
>>> on the camera) to first hit the Menu button, then operate the
>>> multi-selector. Is there a faster way to do this?
>>
>> No. Plus, I find the buttons are difficult to push.
>>
>>>
>>> I also noticed that the SB-600 allows 3 groups (A, B, and C), but the
>>> D-200
>>> only lets you control A and B. This isn't a problem for me (I don't own
>>> that many flash units), but it seems curious. Am I missing something, or
>>> do not all cameras have the ability to control all 3 groups?
>>
>> In order to control three groups you need an SB-800 or SU-800.
>
> Correct.
>
> I'm not sure about the D200 menu, but with the D300 I put E3 in My Menu.
> Just a few clicks and I change what I want. The buttons are very easy to
> push. But again, that's the D300.

It is the same on the D200. But that only sets up the camera. You still
have a bunch of settings to change on the flash units themselves, and
this can be a pain in the neck. The buttons on the flash units are
difficult for my arthritic fingers.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about Nikon CLS (Creative Lighting System) 

In article <2008021910082075249-christophercampbell@hotmailcom>,
C J Campbell <christophercampbell.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

> It is the same on the D200. But that only sets up the camera. You still
> have a bunch of settings to change on the flash units themselves, and
> this can be a pain in the neck. The buttons on the flash units are
> difficult for my arthritic fingers.

The flash unit itself isn't such a big deal. You set it once and you're
done. Diddling with the compensation numbers in the camera you need to do
over and over again until you get it right.

Overall, I'm not sure I'm liking this digital business. I certainly love
the convenience and immediate feedback, but the UI sucks. On my old OM-2,
I knew what every knob and button did (not that there that many to master).
For lack of anything else to worry about, I had to occupy myself with
thinking about the pictures I was taking. Now I seem to spend more time
with my nose in the instruction manual than taking pictures.
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about Nikon CLS (Creative Lighting System) 

"C J Campbell" <christophercampbell.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2008021910082075249-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
> On 2008-02-19 02:23:32 -0800, "Sosumi" <sosumi.TakeThisOut@home.nl> said:
>
>>
>> "C J Campbell" <christophercampbell.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:2008021818171343658-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
>>> On 2008-02-18 06:45:17 -0800, Roy Smith <roy.TakeThisOut@panix.com> said:
>>>
>>>> I've started playing with the remote flash features of my D-200 (with
>>>> an
>>>> SB-600). It's a neat system, but a pain to configure.
>>>>
>>>> Each shot I took involved about 8 button presses to get back to the
>>>> Commander Mode (e3) menu, select the right field, adjust the
>>>> compensation,
>>>> save it, then shoot. Worse, it involves two hands (and adjusting my
>>>> grip
>>>> on the camera) to first hit the Menu button, then operate the
>>>> multi-selector. Is there a faster way to do this?
>>>
>>> No. Plus, I find the buttons are difficult to push.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I also noticed that the SB-600 allows 3 groups (A, B, and C), but the
>>>> D-200
>>>> only lets you control A and B. This isn't a problem for me (I don't
>>>> own
>>>> that many flash units), but it seems curious. Am I missing something,
>>>> or
>>>> do not all cameras have the ability to control all 3 groups?
>>>
>>> In order to control three groups you need an SB-800 or SU-800.
>>
>> Correct.
>>
>> I'm not sure about the D200 menu, but with the D300 I put E3 in My Menu.
>> Just a few clicks and I change what I want. The buttons are very easy to
>> push. But again, that's the D300.
>
> It is the same on the D200. But that only sets up the camera. You still
> have a bunch of settings to change on the flash units themselves, and this
> can be a pain in the neck. The buttons on the flash units are difficult
> for my arthritic fingers.

I know what you mean: I got rheumatism.
Although the OP was commenting about the camera.
The SB 800 is much easier to handle. I got 2 SB600's and 1 SB800, which I
set up easily. The SB600's I always leave as slave A and B. With a sticker
on them , so I don't get confused
The slaves you can set up with the master, SB800 or internal flash. That's
it, right?


--
Sosumi
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about Nikon CLS (Creative Lighting System) 

C J Campbell wrote:
> On 2008-02-18 06:45:17 -0800, Roy Smith <roy DeleteThis @panix.com> said:
>
>> I've started playing with the remote flash features of my D-200 (with an
>> SB-600). It's a neat system, but a pain to configure.
>>
>> Each shot I took involved about 8 button presses to get back to the
>> Commander Mode (e3) menu, select the right field, adjust the
>> compensation,
>> save it, then shoot. Worse, it involves two hands (and adjusting my grip
>> on the camera) to first hit the Menu button, then operate the
>> multi-selector. Is there a faster way to do this?
>
> There is one thing you can do to at least to make handling the flash
> units easier: use Nikon SB-R200 strobes. These can only be used as CLS
> slave units. Dials on the flash allow you to set which group it belongs
> to and exposure compensation. You get two of them with the R1C1 Nikon
> close-up lighting system, plus a SU-800 commander unit and lens mounts
> for macro photography. But the SB-R200 will do a lot more than just
> macro. You can mount these practically anywhere. Personally, I think
> that Nikon should change the name of the kit to the Creative Lighting
> System Studio Kit.

I've wondered about those. How far can they reach? Usually if I want any
flash I don't want anything powerful. Do they do high speed synch for
fill in daylight?
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about Nikon CLS (Creative Lighting System) 

On 2008-02-19 19:10:46 -0800, Paul Furman <paul- DeleteThis @-edgehill.net> said:

> C J Campbell wrote:
>> On 2008-02-18 06:45:17 -0800, Roy Smith <roy DeleteThis @panix.com> said:
>>
>>> I've started playing with the remote flash features of my D-200 (with an
>>> SB-600). It's a neat system, but a pain to configure.
>>>
>>> Each shot I took involved about 8 button presses to get back to the
>>> Commander Mode (e3) menu, select the right field, adjust the compensation,
>>> save it, then shoot. Worse, it involves two hands (and adjusting my grip
>>> on the camera) to first hit the Menu button, then operate the
>>> multi-selector. Is there a faster way to do this?
>>
>> There is one thing you can do to at least to make handling the flash
>> units easier: use Nikon SB-R200 strobes. These can only be used as CLS
>> slave units. Dials on the flash allow you to set which group it belongs
>> to and exposure compensation. You get two of them with the R1C1 Nikon
>> close-up lighting system, plus a SU-800 commander unit and lens mounts
>> for macro photography. But the SB-R200 will do a lot more than just
>> macro. You can mount these practically anywhere. Personally, I think
>> that Nikon should change the name of the kit to the Creative Lighting
>> System Studio Kit.
>
> I've wondered about those. How far can they reach? Usually if I want
> any flash I don't want anything powerful. Do they do high speed synch
> for fill in daylight?

The guide number at ISO 200 is 14 meters or 46 feet. So it is roughly
1/6 as powerful as an SB-800. You compensate by moving the SB-R200s
closer. You can even have the model hold the flash without burning her
out. You can diffuse or reflect them in the normal manner. They do not
have hot shoe type feet, but you can mount them on light stands with an
adapter that comes with the flash.

Yes, they have FP high-speed sync and i-TTL automatically balanced fill
flash. They also have D-TTL, TTL and manual modes. They also have FV
lock, which allows you to lock the flash value while you recompose.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about Nikon CLS (Creative Lighting System) 

On 2008-02-19 17:27:03 -0800, Roy Smith <roy DeleteThis @panix.com> said:

> In article <2008021910082075249-christophercampbell@hotmailcom>,
> C J Campbell <christophercampbell DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It is the same on the D200. But that only sets up the camera. You still
>> have a bunch of settings to change on the flash units themselves, and
>> this can be a pain in the neck. The buttons on the flash units are
>> difficult for my arthritic fingers.
>
> The flash unit itself isn't such a big deal. You set it once and you're
> done. Diddling with the compensation numbers in the camera you need to do
> over and over again until you get it right.
>
> Overall, I'm not sure I'm liking this digital business. I certainly love
> the convenience and immediate feedback, but the UI sucks. On my old OM-2,
> I knew what every knob and button did (not that there that many to master).
> For lack of anything else to worry about, I had to occupy myself with
> thinking about the pictures I was taking. Now I seem to spend more time
> with my nose in the instruction manual than taking pictures.

Yeah, I loved my old OM-2, also. And the OM-1 before that. But even the
film cameras have LCDs and menus now.

The D200 and D300 work a lot like the OM-2. You can indeed master every
button and knob in fairly short order. The menus just give you
additional tools should you ever decide you need them.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about Nikon CLS (Creative Lighting System) 

On 2008-02-20, Roy Smith <roy.RemoveThis@panix.com> wrote:
> Overall, I'm not sure I'm liking this digital business. I certainly love
> the convenience and immediate feedback, but the UI sucks. On my old OM-2,
> I knew what every knob and button did (not that there that many to master).
> For lack of anything else to worry about, I had to occupy myself with
> thinking about the pictures I was taking. Now I seem to spend more time
> with my nose in the instruction manual than taking pictures.

I too used OM-2s for years. I find the D200 little different: I mostly
run it in aperture-priority or manual and still use an assortment of
older flashguns and studio lights. Eschew the bells, forego the whistles
and it's still just photography.

I've used a couple of SB800s and CLS but have no burning desire to trade
in my SB25s, the light looks the same to me and the camera.

--
Chris Savage Kiss me. Or would you rather live in a
Gateshead, UK land where the soap won't lather?
- Billy Bragg
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about Nikon CLS (Creative Lighting System)