Have Nikon 5700,looking at Nikon 8800 or competitor,opinio..

Terry Hollis commented courteously ...

 > I am curious as to why you choose a telephoto zoom
 > rather than a wide zoom.

I'm not sure I understand the term "telephoto zoom" vs.
"wide zoom". One interpretation is "why did you pick a
300mm telephoto with a 35mm wide angle, instead of a 200mm
telephoto with a 24mm wide angle?"

If that's your question, the answer is, I can't find what
I consider to be a competant camera that meets that
criteria. There's a lower priced Nikon (I forget the model
number) that goes to 24mm equivelant, but in looking at it
and talking to the sales person, there were other factors
I didn't like.

35mm equivalent is enough for those crowded shots at a car
show or in a museum maybe 95+% of the time for me. I think
in the last two years, I've had maybe a couple dozen
situations out of 4,000 pictures taken where I couldn't
stand back any further and 35mm cut off the car.

 > I would have thought that the confines of an auto
 > show would restrict your options somewhat.

It does, and I'd like wider, I just can't find everything
I want in one package without going to a DSLR, which I do
*not* want. See above comment on car show confines.

 > I would look at the Nikon 8400 with external flash for
 > that job

It could be the 8400 that I looked at with the 24mm lens.
I'll take a look at Nikon's web site and learn more about
it.

In the meantime, you have an opinion as to whether the
8800's new iTTL flash metering is a superior system?
Please keep in mind that I'm 99 44/100% sure that Nikon
had a design defect for flash on the 5700. I base that on
1) talking the Nikon tech support by phone and via E-mail
with example problem pictures, 2) sending the camera in
for repair - which came back with just the note "clean and
reassemble", that's service talk for "no problem found"
(or no problem admitted!), and 3) I've talked to 3 other
5700 users in various Internet places that suggested that
they, too, suffered from flash inconsistencies and
unexplained severe underexposure.

That being said, whatever it is I wind up with, I'll take
good advantage of the stores 10-day return policy to spend
a few hours at the Henry Ford Museum and the Walter P.
Chrysler Museum, both close to me. And, this time I would
buy Nikons new SB-600 iTTL external flash. Thus, there's
no excuse for the camera and flash to not like each other.
I'll know within about an hour at each museum if my
problem is solved or not.

Anyway, do you have any personal experience with the 8800
or competitive EVF/ZLR camera under museum and car show
conditions? If you have, I'm all ears!

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

--
ATM, aka Jerry<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Have Nikon 5700,looking at Nikon 8800 or competitor,opinio.. 

All Things Mopar wrote:

 > Hi, I'm in love with my Nikon Coolpix 5700 when shooting
 > my favorite subject - car pictures - in daylight. I am
 > completely dissasified with its flash performance not only
 > with the puny Speedlight but also with the excellent
 > Sunpak 433D Nikon-compatible external.

I don't know if this will help you at all, but here's my personal experience
with the 5700.

I've had it for about a year now and I find it quite acceptable for what it
is. I'm hoping to upgrade to a full dSLR one of these days, but in the
meantime I've taken some great pictures with what I've got. I quickly grew
dissatisfied with the built-in flash, same as many other outspoken 5700
owners. I found an inexpensive SB-24 on eBay, which isn't technically fully
compatible but I found works fine. I've used the tilt/swivel head to great
effect, and while I don't know the guide number I do know that the range and
coverage is WAY better than the internal unit. However, I did have to
experiment some to learn how best to use this flash unit "manually", and how
to adjust the camera's settings to compensate for the so-called
"incompatibilies." A bit of a hassle, but not really all THAT hard! Once I
spent some time playing with settings and filling up the CF card (thank
heaven for the Erase feature) I was able to get consistently good pictures.
In fact, I took nearly 300 pictures at a friend's wedding - both outdoors
after the ceremony, using fill flash, and indoors at the reception, mostly
bouncing the light off of walls and ceiling but a few were made with direct
light. Again, range and coverage was even and consistent and I wasn't
having to constantly fiddle with manual settings once I took a couple test
frames to figure out what worked best in each setting. Everybody who has
seen them (including the very picky bride) has complimented me on them. I
won't pretend they're pro-quality, but they look a lot closer to that than I
would have expected considering the modest equipment and personal skill
level involved.

Next I'm going to experiment with tilting the head up and rubber-banding a
4"x6" index card to it, sort of a poor man's "pocket bouncer". I'm hoping
it will let me attain a happy medium between bounced-light and direct.

As I said, I don't know if this will help you any - but I wanted to at least
put in a word for experimenting with one's current setup. Nothing to lose,
right? Whatever you decide, good luck and happy picture-taking....

Greg Evans<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Have Nikon 5700,looking at Nikon 8800 or competitor,opinio.. 

Greg Evans commented courteously ...

 > I don't know if this will help you at all, but
 > here's my personal experience with the 5700.

Yep. Sure has helped as I read the rest of your post!
 >
 > I've had it for about a year now and I find it quite
 > acceptable for what it is. I'm hoping to upgrade to a
full
 > dSLR one of these days,

Not me, but that's personal choice...

 > but in the meantime I've taken some great pictures
 > with what I've got. I quickly grew dissatisfied
 > with the built-in flash, same as many other outspoken
 > 5700 owners.

Me, too. I first bought a Vivitar 728 Nikon compatible but
it quickly died a quick death so I bought the Sunpak 433D,
which is outstanding.

 > I found an inexpensive SB-24 on eBay, which isn't
 > technically fully compatible but I found works fine.
[snip]
 > However, I did have to experiment some to learn how
 > best to use this flash unit "manually", and how to
 > adjust the camera's settings to compensate for the
 > so-called "incompatibilies." A bit of a hassle,
 > but not really all THAT hard!
[snip]

Well, my Sunpak was "compatible" and didn't work, but
then, neither did the built-in Speedlight even when I was
within its 10' range. As I commented on briefly in my OP,
2/3 of the time I can get by, the other 1/3 is a *real*
struggle to fix in PSP 9; sometimes I can succeed, other
times the color gets too distorted from the extreme
underexposure (at least 5-6 stops) and often the digital
noise turns my picture into a sand painting.

 > Once I spent some time playing with settings
 > and filling up the CF card (thank heaven for the
 > Erase feature) I was able to get consistently good
 > pictures.
[snip]

Yeah, Greg, I've been able to minimally do that - full
manual aperture = GN / distance, but it is tedious and
time consuming. Maybe I've got money burning a hole in my
pocket and I should just suck it up and continue with the
5700, but hey, I don't smoke, I don't drink, don't buy
expensive things. But, I *do* love car photography. I
think I can get out of the 5700 on eBay and re-buy
everything I need in an 8800 or equivalent competitive
product for maybe $500-600. Chump change compared to my
sanity going down hill everytime I shoot and my stomach
turning over from frustration.

[snip the rest]
I've done just about all the things you've done. Your
situation and mine aren't exactly the same but it does add
a 4th data point to my palry survey that there's something
wrong with the auto exposure system on the 5700 in certain
kinds of flash situations. Thanks for confirming that I
haven't been imagining this shit!

--
ATM, aka Jerry<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Have Nikon 5700,looking at Nikon 8800 or competitor,opinio.. 

All Things Mopar wrote:


[snip]
 > a 4th data point to my palry survey that there's something
 > wrong with the auto exposure system on the 5700 in certain
 > kinds of flash situations. Thanks for confirming that I
 > haven't been imagining this shit!

I quickly learned not to rely totally on auto-much of anything and how
to get the results I wanted by fiddling with the controls (hey, that's
why I got the fancy bells-and-whistles model anyway, right?). But if
you've got the money to upgrade, sure, why not! Do some reasearch,
though; I could be wrong, but it seems like I read somewhere online
that the flash business you describe is one of the few things NOT much
improved in the 8800 (over the 5700).<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Have Nikon 5700,looking at Nikon 8800 or competitor,opinio.. 

Greg Evans commented courteously ...

 > I quickly learned not to rely totally on auto-much of
 > anything and how to get the results I wanted by
 > fiddling with the controls (hey, that's why I got the
 > fancy bells-and-whistles model anyway, right?). But if
 > you've got the money to upgrade, sure, why not! Do
 > some reasearch, though; I could be wrong, but it seems
 > like I read somewhere online that the flash business you
 > describe is one of the few things NOT much improved in
 > the 8800 (over the 5700).

Thanks for your comments. The post I made here is just a
small part of my overall research effort on another
camera, whether it winds up being the 8800 or something
else.

I used to be a Nikon FTN owner, and loved it. It had
essentially what we'd call "manual" today. But, unlike
quite a number of digitals I've looked at, I haven't found
anything where I could focus with a ring on the lens,
twirl the shutter speed dial with my right finger and
thumb, and change the aperture with another lens ring, all
while keeping my eye on the subject and watching the
viewfinder indicator to make sure I stayed in focus and
had a good exposure reading.

I've tried manual on my 5700. It works but it isn't fool
proof, either. And, I guess I've changed. I used to like
2-door cars, now I like 4-doors and SUVs. So, my days of
full-manual are over. I'm willing to spend a few extra
bucks to assure that I get at least reasonable and
consistent daylight and flash exposure. I don't expect
perfection from *any* camera, same as you've observed.

I'm not totally sure yet, as I'm still researching, but
perhaps you may be referring to the 8700, which uses
essentially the same body and electronics as the 5700,
albeit it is now an 8 MP camera so some sensor and
firmware changes obviously had to be made. It isn't on my
radar screen because I don't want to mess with an upgrade
to something I personally think has a problem. Plus, based
on my very limited knowledge of digital camera technology,
it would not at all surprise me if the 8700 was noisy,
compared to the 5700 (but that's pure speculation!).

The 8700 lists for $799, I think. The 8800 lists for $999
with a $100 rebate. It was a brand new design that was
announced in September last year, and has an all-new
proprietary flash technology that I believe I've read is
called iTTL. This is the reason that my current Sunpak
433D won't work. Part of iTTL is the ability to do
wireless flash triggering, which people have been
clamoring for.

In the final analysis, I'll eventually make up my mind
what I think I want, and I'll take advantage of my local
camera store 10-day return policy to verify everything.

Thanks again for your help. I need all the help and
suggestions I can get!

--
ATM, aka Jerry<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Have Nikon 5700,looking at Nikon 8800 or competitor,opinio.. 

All Things Mopar wrote:

 > Terry Hollis commented courteously ...
 >
  >> I am curious as to why you choose a telephoto zoom
  >> rather than a wide zoom.
 >
 > I'm not sure I understand the term "telephoto zoom" vs.
 > "wide zoom". One interpretation is "why did you pick a
 > 300mm telephoto with a 35mm wide angle, instead of a 200mm
 > telephoto with a 24mm wide angle?"
 >
 > If that's your question, the answer is, I can't find what
 > I consider to be a competant camera that meets that
 > criteria. There's a lower priced Nikon (I forget the model
 > number) that goes to 24mm equivelant, but in looking at it
 > and talking to the sales person, there were other factors
 > I didn't like.

Yes, you have correctly interpreted my question. The point is that the
Nikon CP 8800 and the Nikon CP 8400 are the same camera but fitted with a
different lens...

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp8800/" target="_blank">http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp8800/</a>

The following is a quote from the above site...

------------------------ start quote -----------------------------
Two cameras, the same heart
After a brief look at the specs and a hands-on it was clear that the Coolpix
8400 and 8800 shared the same heart; CCD, processor, menus, image
processing) battery, LCD monitor, EVF, a similar control layout as well as
other features. As a buyer therefore you can choose simply between a smaller
3.5x wide-angle zoom or for $100 more a large 10x telephoto-zoom with VR.
The differences between the two cameras are detailed below.

----------------------- end quote --------------------------------

 > 35mm equivalent is enough for those crowded shots at a car
 > show or in a museum maybe 95+% of the time for me. I think
 > in the last two years, I've had maybe a couple dozen
 > situations out of 4,000 pictures taken where I couldn't
 > stand back any further and 35mm cut off the car.
 >
  >> I would have thought that the confines of an auto
  >> show would restrict your options somewhat.
 >
 > It does, and I'd like wider, I just can't find everything
 > I want in one package without going to a DSLR, which I do
 > *not* want. See above comment on car show confines.
 >
  >> I would look at the Nikon 8400 with external flash for
  >> that job
 >
 > It could be the 8400 that I looked at with the 24mm lens.
 > I'll take a look at Nikon's web site and learn more about
 > it.

You might also consider taking your photos with available light rather than
flash, I have been successful with exposures of 1.0 seconds by holding the
camera against a wall or supporting it on a nearby object.

This option is available on any camera, such as the CP 8x00, that uses a
reticulating LCD screen as the viewfinder. The results are better than
using the built in flash.

--
Regards - Terry Hollis, Auckland, New Zealand

replace "nospam" with "terry.hollis" to reply<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Have Nikon 5700,looking at Nikon 8800 or competitor,opinio.. 

All Things Mopar <usenetMAPS123.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote in
news:Xns95F8B70E1A556ReplyToken@216.196.97.131:

 > Hi, I'm in love with my Nikon Coolpix 5700 when shooting
 > my favorite subject - car pictures - in daylight. I am
 > completely dissasified with its flash performance not only
 > with the puny Speedlight but also with the excellent
 > Sunpak 433D Nikon-compatible external. I don't need to
 > belabor that here, suffice to say the 5700 is going on
 > eBay and I'm in the market for a new camera.
 >
 > To start, I really do not want a DSLR, of any make or
 > model. There's lots of reasons for this but size, weight,
 > and the lack of an Electronic View Finder are all show
 > stoppers for me.
 >
 > The 5700's 5 mega pixels is more than enough, but I'm
 > looking at the 8800 because it has a brand new flash
 > system (apparently)called eTTL. And, this time, I'm not
 > gonna be penny wise and dollar fooling - I'm gonna buy
 > Nikon's SB-600.
 >
 > My requirements are the same as most peoples: clear,
 > sharp, noise-free, detailed, well exposed, great color,
 > great camera features. Who doesn't want that stuff? 8 MP
 > is just frosting on the cake.
 >
 > I'm confident that the 8800 will work superbly for me in
 > daylight. I don't know about flash. My local camera store
 > will let me put the camera and flash on my Visa and give
 > me 10 days to test drive it, so long as I don't open the
 > CD, which is OK since I have a USB reader.
 >
 > I am not at all wed to Nikon. I've already started my
 > research on the web, but still have a ways to go. What I'm
 > asking of all the good people here is some opinions and
 > advice from people that actually own a Nikon 8800. My main
 > flash problems are in the dank light of car museums where
 > there're no walls or ceilings for the flash to reflect
 > off.
 >
 > I am completely open-minded on make and model. I'd say my
 > budget is $1,000, which is where the 8800 is, less a $100
 > rebate. I understand that there's a major photo show in a
 > couple of weeks, so the 8800 and its competitors may come
 > down in price by the end of the month.

Dude, I also own the 5700, and for me the choice is between the 8800
and the D70. I don't want to start a ZLR vs SLR war here, but I'm
waiting until after I hear all of the PMA new releases before I decide
which model to buy. I too am in love with my 5700, but I can learn to
love another if it steals my heart!
..

--

Bill<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Have Nikon 5700,looking at Nikon 8800 or competitor,opinio.. 

Woodchuck Bill wrote:
[]
 > Dude, I also own the 5700, and for me the choice is between the 8800
 > and the D70. I don't want to start a ZLR vs SLR war here, but I'm
 > waiting until after I hear all of the PMA new releases before I decide
 > which model to buy. I too am in love with my 5700, but I can learn to
 > love another if it steals my heart!

Bill, I would welcome reasoned arguments as to where a DSLR might be of
benefit over a ZLR and vice versa. No need for a war, to me, they are
sufficiently different animals as to both find a space in our hearts! I
can see myself carrying round both the Nikon 5700 and the Nikon 8400!

Cheers,
David<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Have Nikon 5700,looking at Nikon 8800 or competitor,opinio.. 

Woodchuck Bill commented courteously ...

 > Dude, I also own the 5700, and for me the choice
 > is between the 8800 and the D70. I don't want to
 > start a ZLR vs SLR war here, but I'm waiting until
 > after I hear all of the PMA new releases before
 > I decide which model to buy. I too am in love with
 > my 5700, but I can learn to love another if it
 > steals my heart! .

No chance of a war from me, Bill!

I have my reasons for wanting a ZLR and not a DSLR, no
matter whose, and I have my reasons for dumping the 5700.
As I said in my OP, the 5700 is truly outstanding in
daylight, but I've failed miserably after 6 monts of pain,
re-shoots, tech support, repair, etc. to get decent,
consistent flash pictures with either the itty bitty
Speedlight or the very competant Sunpak 433D. And I'm
getting no where fast, so it's time to cut my losses and
get on with my life.

If I were in the market for a DSLR, I'd take a look at
both the D70 and Canon 20D before buying anything. Let the
war begin!

--
ATM, aka Jerry<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Have Nikon 5700,looking at Nikon 8800 or competitor,opinio.. 

Woodchuck Bill wrote:

 > Dude, I also own the 5700, and for me the choice is between the 8800
 > and the D70. I don't want to start a ZLR vs SLR war here, but I'm
 > waiting until after I hear all of the PMA new releases before I decide
 > which model to buy. I too am in love with my 5700, but I can learn to
 > love another if it steals my heart!

I have the Nikon Coolpix 5000 and the Canon SLR 300d. For action shots the
300d is the automatic choice but for static low light shots, the 5000 wins
hands down.

I have just completed a 5 week trip to asia and left the 300d at home
because of it's weight with all of the lens etc.

The points in favour of the 5000 were it's reticulating LCD view-finder and
the 19mm WA lens accessory, both received a lot of use with the 3,000 photos
that I shot.

--
Regards - Terry Hollis, Auckland, New Zealand

replace "nospam" with "terry.hollis" to reply<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Have Nikon 5700,looking at Nikon 8800 or competitor,opinio.. 

Terry Hollis <nospam.RemoveThis@xtra.co.nz> wrote:

 > I have the Nikon Coolpix 5000 and the Canon SLR 300d. For action shots the
 > 300d is the automatic choice but for static low light shots, the 5000 wins
 > hands down.

That's very interesting, I would have thought it to be the other
way round. What does the 5000 offer on static low light shots
that the 300d does not?

-Wolfgang<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Have Nikon 5700,looking at Nikon 8800 or competitor,opinio.. 

Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
 > Terry Hollis <nospam.DeleteThis@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
 >
  >> I have the Nikon Coolpix 5000 and the Canon SLR 300d. For action
  >> shots the 300d is the automatic choice but for static low light
  >> shots, the 5000 wins hands down.
 >
 > That's very interesting, I would have thought it to be the other
 > way round. What does the 5000 offer on static low light shots
 > that the 300d does not?
 >
 > -Wolfgang

The 300d is an SLR and as such you must use a tripod in low light
conditions, for a traveller in Asia, a tripod is not an option.

The CP 5000 has a reticulating LCD view-finder and I have found that in low
light situations I can always find something to support the camera, a wall,
rubbish bin or whatever and in spite of the awkward position the camera may
be in, I can still get a good view of the view-finder.

With the SLR the need to have your eye in a particular place makes it
unsuitable for this rough and ready type of support.

--
Regards - Terry Hollis, Auckland, New Zealand

replace "nospam" with "terry.hollis" to reply<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Have Nikon 5700,looking at Nikon 8800 or competitor,opinio.. 

In article <37ekjlF54mvg1U1 DeleteThis @individual.net>, nospam DeleteThis @xtra.co.nz says...
 > The 300d is an SLR and as such you must use a tripod in low light
 > conditions, for a traveller in Asia, a tripod is not an option.
 >
 > The CP 5000 has a reticulating LCD view-finder and I have found that in low
 > light situations I can always find something to support the camera, a wall,
 > rubbish bin or whatever and in spite of the awkward position the camera may
 > be in, I can still get a good view of the view-finder.
 >
 > With the SLR the need to have your eye in a particular place makes it
 > unsuitable for this rough and ready type of support.
 >
 > --
 > Regards - Terry Hollis, Auckland, New Zealand
 >
 > replace "nospam" with "terry.hollis" to reply
 >

I think you meant "Articulated" view finder.. recticulated infers some sort
of "pattern" like on a Recticulated Python.


--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Ct.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Have Nikon 5700,looking at Nikon 8800 or competitor,opinio..