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Nikon 50mm 1.2 or 1.4

 
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m_d_beger_1900

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Since: Aug 01, 2004
Posts: 14



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 7:08 pm
Post subject: Nikon 50mm 1.2 or 1.4
Archived from groups: rec>photo>equipment>35mm (more info?)

Which should I buy? Why?
Thanks,
Mike.

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user107

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Since: Jun 10, 2004
Posts: 3377



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Nikon 50mm 1.2 or 1.4 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Mike - EMAIL IGNORED wrote:

 > Which should I buy? Why?
 > Thanks,
 > Mike.

Neither? the 50mm f/1.8 is probably as much as 99% of photogs
need in a normal FFL. Very good lens.

Assuming that you're looking at MF lenses.

f/1.2 is not that much faster than an f/1.4. Distortion is
relatively high. Unless you realy need that tiny bit of speed,
don't bother.

f/1.4 if you really need that extra 1/2 stop, then by all means.
It is sharper than the f/1.8 but not that much. More
distortion than the f/1.8.

The other disadvantages of the f/1.4 is it is comparatively large
v. the f/1.8 ... and 2.5X the price of the f/1.8.

If small size matters you might take a gander at the cult classic
street lens 45mm f/2.8
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://tinyurl.com/4torg" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/4torg</a> <- that's a lens, not a lenscap!

In short, the f/1.8 has the least distortion, pretty sharp, more
than fast enough for most uses and brand new is under US$100.00.

Cheers,
Alan

--
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moat

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Since: Jun 04, 2004
Posts: 1156



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Nikon 50mm 1.2 or 1.4 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Mike - EMAIL IGNORED wrote:

 > Which should I buy? Why?
 > Thanks,
 > Mike.

I have used several manual focus versions of these. All of the f1.2
lenses exhibited some vignetting and softness at the corners, though
performed better at f2.0. Of the f1.4 I have owned and used, it took
four examples to find one that was really a great performer. That one
that I kept was not a new lens, though it has stood up well to lots of
usage. In general, I think you will have much better luck with the f1.4,
particularly in AIS mount. The 50 mm f1.2 and f1.4 are nearly identical
at f2.0 and smaller apertures. The 50 mm f1.4 AIS (bought used) can
sometimes seem a little loose in the focusing barrel, though it is very
easy to tighten up (without interfering with the aperture or lens
elements).

Of all the Nikon f1.2 lenses, the rare 58 mm f1.2 is really the absolute
best choice, and substantially better than any of the fast 50 mm lens
choices. There is a very similar old 55 mm f1.2, which is much cheaper,
though it is not much better performing than a 50 mm f1.4, though it has
better edge performance wide open than the 50 mm f1.2. The biggest
problem with the 58 mm f1.2 is that it is very very expensive.

Unless you plan on doing quite a bit of wide open, or low light
photography, then you can do slightly better with a Nikon f1.8 or f2.0
for less money. The absolute best 50 mm I have ever used is a currently
owned 50 mm f2.0 AI deep barrel lens. These were not made for long, and
the very short barrel lens (often in f1.Cool is much more common.

Whichever Nikon 50 mm you get, definitely get the matching lens hood.
The older metal lens hoods are quite good, though a little tough to
find. There was a screw on version, though the snap on version is more
common. Skip on the rubber lens hood, since the mount is slightly too
thick, and makes filter use more likely to cause vignetting.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
<http://www.allgstudio.com/gallery.html> Updated!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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user10

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Since: Jun 02, 2004
Posts: 1309



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Nikon 50mm 1.2 or 1.4 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Mike - EMAIL IGNORED <m_d_beger_1900 DeleteThis @yahoo.com> writes:

 > Which should I buy? Why?

The 1.4.

Unless there are special circumstances. *Which* 1.2? The 58mm f1.2
NOCT is an excellent lens for lots of things (including portraiture on
a DSLR with 1.5x crop factor).
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
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sligojoes_pam_

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Since: Jun 02, 2004
Posts: 641



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Nikon 50mm 1.2 or 1.4 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Mike - EMAIL IGNORED wrote:
 > Which should I buy? Why?
 > Thanks,
 > Mike.

Nikon makes (made) several lenses that fit that description. In general
a 1.2 lens will be less sharp, and cost more, but will gather a little more
light.

It is sort of like asking if you should buy a cherry or apple pie.
Which ever one works for you.

If you have a special need for every little bit of light gathering
power, go for the 1.2. For most of us the 1.4 would likely be a better
compromise.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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critics

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Since: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 655



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Nikon 50mm 1.2 or 1.4 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Mike - EMAIL IGNORED" <m_d_beger_1900.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:413A20DA.A2AF7310@yahoo.com...
 > Which should I buy? Why?
 > Thanks,
 > Mike.

Check out the 1.2 reviews:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.photographyreview.com/PRD_88756_3111crx.aspx#reviews" target="_blank">http://www.photographyreview.com/PRD_88756_3111crx.aspx#reviews</a>

The 1.4 reviews are all pretty much gushing, as in I'd take them with a
grain of salt. I have two pre AI 1.4s, and they're both soft at 1.4.
Useable, but soft. I took this shot with it, hand held at 1.4 and 1/15 of a
second:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.shuttercity.com/public/e/emjaysea/Hemingway%5F01a%2Ejpg" target="_blank">http://www.shuttercity.com/public/e/emjaysea/Hemingway%5F01a%2Ejpg</a>

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mattclara.com" target="_blank">www.mattclara.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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user107

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Since: Jun 10, 2004
Posts: 3377



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Nikon 50mm 1.2 or 1.4 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Matt Clara wrote:

 > The 1.4 reviews are all pretty much gushing, as in I'd take them with a
 > grain of salt. I have two pre AI 1.4s, and they're both soft at 1.4.
 > Useable, but soft. I took this shot with it, hand held at 1.4 and 1/15 of a
 > second:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.shuttercity.com/public/e/emjaysea/Hemingway%5F01a%2Ejpg</font" target="_blank">http://www.shuttercity.com/public/e/emjaysea/Hemingway%5F01a%2Ejpg</font</a>>

Handheld at 1/15 with pretty shallow DOF to boot probably
accounts for lack of sharpness more than the fat aperture.
Still, it should be softer wide open than at say f/4 or so...

Nice shot, bokeh seems a bit harsh ... how does it look on the print?




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-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm" target="_blank">http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm</a>
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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pjm

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Since: Apr 29, 2004
Posts: 4



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:34 am
Post subject: Re: Nikon 50mm 1.2 or 1.4 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Mike - EMAIL IGNORED <m_d_beger_1900 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> writes:
 > Which should I buy? Why?

1.8 -- cheap, light, and so sharp my wife won't let me take
pictures of her with it.

Patrick

------------------------------------------------------------------------
S P Engineering, Inc. | The experts in large scale distributed OO
| systems design and implementation.
pjm RemoveThis @spe.com | (C++, Java, ObjectStore, Oracle, CORBA, UML)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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jeremy

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Since: Jun 03, 2004
Posts: 359



(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:07 am
Post subject: Re: Nikon 50mm 1.2 or 1.4 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Patrick May" <pjm RemoveThis @spe.com> wrote in message
news:m13c1x4t1y.fsf@localhost.localdomain...
 > Mike - EMAIL IGNORED <m_d_beger_1900 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> writes:

  > > Which should I buy? Why?
 >
 > 1.8 -- cheap, light, and so sharp my wife won't let me take
 > pictures of her with it.
 >

Yep! All things being ewual, the lens designers make less optical
compromises with slower lenses, so you should expect maximum sharpness, more
contrast and less distortion with the f/1.8.

The irony is that the slower lens is usually smaller, lighter and often much
more economical than is the faster lens. Obviously, if you have a specific
need for a faster lens, this may all be irrelevent. But today's
finer-grained film emulsions offer you an alternative: use a faster film to
compensate for the slower lens.

In Medium Format, specifically Hasselblad and Rolleiflex, f/2.0 represents
the FASTEST lens that can be used. So a Nikkor f/1.8, while somewhat slower
than the 1.2 or 1.4, is still nothing to sneeze at.

My own experience with Pentax normal lenses is consistent with what I just
said. I own all 3 normal lens types: 50mm f/1.4, 55mm f/1.8 and 55mm f/2.0.
The 1.8 and the 2.0 lenses produce sharper and contrastier images than does
the 1.4, and since I've gone from using ASA 200, rather than my previous
choice of ASA 100 film, I don't miss that extra 1/2 or 2/3 stop at all.

I will tell you where my f/1.4 really is outstanding, though. That is when
shooting wide open to minimize depth-of-field. I particularly like the
technique, as it visually isolates the main subject from the background. I
favor that technique more than filling the frame, because it enables me to
include some background, which serves to give the subject a
point-of-reference, while still keeping the background from commanding all
of the viewer's attention. Plus, the Pentax normal lenses have absolutely
beautiful bokeh. So the main subject is often awash in saturated colors (if
the colors appear in the background), while the defocused background part of
the image does not compete for the attention of the viewer. For this
effect, the 1.4 lens really stands out, especially because it introduces no
apparent perspective distortion, unlike a telephoto lens would. (I happen
to favor using the normal lens because it imposes virtually no graphical
control on the subject--everything looks like it would if it were being
viewed by the human eye. I do a lot of scenics and cityscapes, and I want
to record the scene to look as I saw it, rather than with altered
perspective. This may not be everyone's cup of tea, but to me, the normal
lens is indispensable.)

Nikon lenses are very sharp, but they are not on a par with Pentax when it
comes to pleasing bokeh. The classic Pentax Planar designs ("Zeiss
copies?") have sacrificed just a bit of sharpness to gain beautiful defocus.
They typically also have a bit warmer color rendition and are often
described as being the lenses closest to the classic German lens designs.

You didn't say what type of subjects you shot, so this bokeh thing may be
completely irrelevant to your situation. But, in general, the slower lens
requires less tradeoffs, and produces a superior image. Just look at the
classic German normal lenses, some of which were as slow as f/3.5 or f/4
(I'm thinking of CZJ and Schneider). They are still held in high esteem
today by many photographers. The image quality was high due in great part
to the relatively slow speed.

Even Leica admits that their first incarnation of the f/1.4 normal lens was
nothing to write home about--it was on a par with the Japanese glass of the
70s, but didn't have that margin of extra quality that Leica would have
preferred. It is easier to design a slower lens to give high quality
results.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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philip

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Since: Jun 03, 2004
Posts: 333



(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:45 am
Post subject: Re: Nikon 50mm 1.2 or 1.4 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <_0q_c.171594$ic1.14806@news.easynews.com>,
Matt Clara <critics RemoveThis @large.com> wrote:
 >"Mike - EMAIL IGNORED" <m_d_beger_1900 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
 >news:413A20DA.A2AF7310@yahoo.com...
  >> Which should I buy? Why?
  >> Thanks,
  >> Mike.
 >
 >Check out the 1.2 reviews:
 >http://www.photographyreview.com/PRD_88756_3111crx.aspx#reviews
 >
 >The 1.4 reviews are all pretty much gushing, as in I'd take them with a
 >grain of salt. I have two pre AI 1.4s, and they're both soft at 1.4.
 >Useable, but soft. I took this shot with it, hand held at 1.4 and 1/15 of a
 >second:
 >http://www.shuttercity.com/public/e/emjaysea/Hemingway%5F01a%2Ejpg

Is it soft or low contrast? I found the my 50/1.4 from the sixties is
sharp enough wide open, but low contrast.



--
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recorder. [...] Video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving
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sligojoes_pam_

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Since: Jun 02, 2004
Posts: 641



(Msg. 11) Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:28 am
Post subject: Re: Nikon 50mm 1.2 or 1.4 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Alan Browne wrote:
 > Mike - EMAIL IGNORED wrote:
 >
  >> Which should I buy? Why?
  >> Thanks,
  >> Mike.
 >
 > Neither? the 50mm f/1.8 is probably as much as 99% of photogs
 > need in a normal FFL. Very good lens.
 >

I agree there.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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weg9

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Since: Jun 11, 2004
Posts: 1764



(Msg. 12) Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:18 am
Post subject: Re: Nikon 50mm 1.2 or 1.4 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Mike - EMAIL IGNORED" <m_d_beger_1900 DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:413A20DA.A2AF7310@yahoo.com...
 > Which should I buy? Why?
 > Thanks,
 > Mike.

Unless you have a specific need for the extra speed, go for the slower
lens.....As a matter of fact, what's wrong with the f/1.8? This lens is as
sharp or sharper than the other two, and it sells for less than $100. I
don't see how you can beat a bargain like that unless, as I say, you
absolutely have to have the extra speed.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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brianc1959

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Since: Jun 21, 2004
Posts: 183



(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 10:12 am
Post subject: Re: Nikon 50mm 1.2 or 1.4 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Mike - EMAIL IGNORED <m_d_beger_1900.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<413A20DA.A2AF7310.DeleteThis@yahoo.com>...
 > Which should I buy? Why?
 > Thanks,
 > Mike.

These two lenses perform very similarly when compared at identical
apertures. Since the 50/1.2 gives you more options its the one to
get.

Brian
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.caldwellphotographic.com" target="_blank">www.caldwellphotographic.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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sander

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Since: Jun 04, 2004
Posts: 316



(Msg. 14) Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:07 am
Post subject: Re: Nikon 50mm 1.2 or 1.4 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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William Graham <weg9 DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:
 >
 > "Mike - EMAIL IGNORED" <m_d_beger_1900 DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
 > news:413A20DA.A2AF7310@yahoo.com...
  > > Which should I buy? Why?
  > > Thanks,
  > > Mike.
 >
 > Unless you have a specific need for the extra speed, go for the slower
 > lens.....As a matter of fact, what's wrong with the f/1.8? This lens is as
 > sharp or sharper than the other two, and it sells for less than $100. I
 > don't see how you can beat a bargain like that unless, as I say, you
 > absolutely have to have the extra speed.
 >

Yes, but if you really have a really dark scene or are trying to
shoot moving things in low light, you might simply not get the shot
with the 1.8 or get it only with unacceptably grainy film. 1 1/3 stop
does make quite a difference.

--
  Sander

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weg9

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Since: Jun 11, 2004
Posts: 1764



(Msg. 15) Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 5:03 am
Post subject: Re: Nikon 50mm 1.2 or 1.4 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Sander Vesik" <sander.DeleteThis@haldjas.folklore.ee> wrote in message
news:1094422106.588452@haldjas.folklore.ee...
 > William Graham <weg9.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:
  > >
  > > "Mike - EMAIL IGNORED" <m_d_beger_1900.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
  > > news:413A20DA.A2AF7310@yahoo.com...
   > > > Which should I buy? Why?
   > > > Thanks,
   > > > Mike.
  > >
  > > Unless you have a specific need for the extra speed, go for the slower
  > > lens.....As a matter of fact, what's wrong with the f/1.8? This lens is
as
  > > sharp or sharper than the other two, and it sells for less than $100. I
  > > don't see how you can beat a bargain like that unless, as I say, you
  > > absolutely have to have the extra speed.
  > >
 >
 > Yes, but if you really have a really dark scene or are trying to
 > shoot moving things in low light, you might simply not get the shot
 > with the 1.8 or get it only with unacceptably grainy film. 1 1/3 stop
 > does make quite a difference.
 >
Well, if you really need the speed, and cost is no object, why not go for
the Noctilux by Leica? or Canon's f/1.0 50mm lens? - You might have to buy a
body to put it on, but you will have the "Fastest camera in the West."
see: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/noctilux.shtml" target="_blank">http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/noctilux.shtml</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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