Goodbye to APS, and Question About CD-Rs.

Darrell wrote:
 > One of the
 > better CD-R is Delkin's
<font color=purple> > <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.delkin.com/delkin_news_press_release.php?id=37</font" target="_blank">http://www.delkin.com/delkin_news_press_release.php?id=37</font</a>>

Nice link, it's good to see somebody focusing on quality and longevity.
I wonder if they will make DVDs though, CDR is getting small for
uncompressed high-megapixel photos.
 >> Stay informed about: Goodbye to APS, and Question About CD-Rs. 

Hi darrell,

Thanks a lot for your helpful reply. In the meantime, I copied a CF card to a
Maxell blank CD-R, and was then able to print from the CD-R with no problem.I've
been using both data and music Maxell CD-R blanks for several years, with no
problems to date.

Mort

Darrell wrote:



  > > After 8 years of using my Elph and Elph 2 cameras, I have finally
  > > succumbed to the siren song of digital, inspired by Kodak's worsening
  > > processing of APS and their taking longer and longer to deliver the
  > > prints and reprints, all with the data on the back smeared and
  > > illegible.
  > >
 > APS, the let's reinvent the wheel. Kodak last attempt was "Disc Film" in the
 > early 1980's. Kodak has NEVER got it right, IMHO they surprise me they
 > haven't gone bankrupt. They are a history of.. well stupidity! Let's see a
 > few highlights;
 >
 > Disk Film
 > Instant Film & Cameras, (aka Polaroid sued them BIG TIME!)
 > APS
 >
 > They never seem to be able to foresee their direction.
 >
  > > I bought a 5MP Canon S500 Digital Elph. The pictures are sharper than
  > > the APS, I can print them on my home printer whenever I want to, and
  > > even the 8.5 x 11 " prints are sharp, with good color. Kodak seems to
  > > be in a downward spiral of withdrawing from conventional film, while
  > > not making great strides in the digital world.
  > >
 > Recently Kodak did buy the Imaging sensor division of National
 > Semi-Conductor. But they should have done that in 1995!
 >
  > > I'm planning to download images from my camera's CF cards to my PC, and
  > > then burning them to CD-R as data. Will this work, considering that my
  > > camera does only JPEG? Will I then be able to make prints from the CD-R?
  > > CD-R storage seems to be safer, and infinitely cheaper, than storage on
  > > CF cards.Thanks.
  > >
 > Depends on the CD-R media, some is crap and will de-laminate. One of the
 > better CD-R is Delkin's
<font color=purple> > <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.delkin.com/delkin_news_press_release.php?id=37</font" target="_blank">http://www.delkin.com/delkin_news_press_release.php?id=37</font</a>>
 >
 > Just make sure you update as technology advances, I do have an 8" floppy
 > disk above my computer as a reminder of this.
 >> Stay informed about: Goodbye to APS, and Question About CD-Rs. 

Is there any difference between data or music CD-rs? I don't think there is.

"mort" wrote in message

 > Hi darrell,
 >
 > Thanks a lot for your helpful reply. In the meantime, I copied a CF card
 > to a
 > Maxell blank CD-R, and was then able to print from the CD-R with no
 > problem.I've
 > been using both data and music Maxell CD-R blanks for several years, with
 > no
 > problems to date.
 >
 > Mort
 >
 > Darrell wrote:
 >


   >> > After 8 years of using my Elph and Elph 2 cameras, I have finally
   >> > succumbed to the siren song of digital, inspired by Kodak's worsening
   >> > processing of APS and their taking longer and longer to deliver the
   >> > prints and reprints, all with the data on the back smeared and
   >> > illegible.
   >> >
  >> APS, the let's reinvent the wheel. Kodak last attempt was "Disc Film" in
  >> the
  >> early 1980's. Kodak has NEVER got it right, IMHO they surprise me they
  >> haven't gone bankrupt. They are a history of.. well stupidity! Let's see
  >> a
  >> few highlights;
  >>
  >> Disk Film
  >> Instant Film & Cameras, (aka Polaroid sued them BIG TIME!)
  >> APS
  >>
  >> They never seem to be able to foresee their direction.
  >>
   >> > I bought a 5MP Canon S500 Digital Elph. The pictures are sharper than
   >> > the APS, I can print them on my home printer whenever I want to, and
   >> > even the 8.5 x 11 " prints are sharp, with good color. Kodak seems to
   >> > be in a downward spiral of withdrawing from conventional film, while
   >> > not making great strides in the digital world.
   >> >
  >> Recently Kodak did buy the Imaging sensor division of National
  >> Semi-Conductor. But they should have done that in 1995!
  >>
   >> > I'm planning to download images from my camera's CF cards to my PC, and
   >> > then burning them to CD-R as data. Will this work, considering that my
   >> > camera does only JPEG? Will I then be able to make prints from the
   >> > CD-R?
   >> > CD-R storage seems to be safer, and infinitely cheaper, than storage on
   >> > CF cards.Thanks.
   >> >
  >> Depends on the CD-R media, some is crap and will de-laminate. One of the
  >> better CD-R is Delkin's
<font color=green>  >> <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.delkin.com/delkin_news_press_release.php?id=37</font" target="_blank">http://www.delkin.com/delkin_news_press_release.php?id=37</font</a>>
  >>
  >> Just make sure you update as technology advances, I do have an 8" floppy
  >> disk above my computer as a reminder of this.
 >
 >> Stay informed about: Goodbye to APS, and Question About CD-Rs. 

Darrell wrote:


  >> After 8 years of using my Elph and Elph 2 cameras, I have finally
  >> succumbed to the siren song of digital, inspired by Kodak's worsening
  >> processing of APS and their taking longer and longer to deliver the
  >> prints and reprints, all with the data on the back smeared and
  >> illegible.
  >>
 > APS, the let's reinvent the wheel. Kodak last attempt was "Disc Film"
 > in the early 1980's. Kodak has NEVER got it right, IMHO they surprise
 > me they haven't gone bankrupt. They are a history of.. well
 > stupidity! Let's see a few highlights;

126 Instamatic in the 1960s; 110 in the '70s; Disc in the '80s; APS in
the '90s - with (I believe) the possible exception of APS - each format
had a shorter lifespan and worse quality than the previous. I got out
of photofinishing before APS came along, but of all the 'rolls' of Disc
film I ever worked with, I saw exactly ~one~ decent print come from
it... ={ APS has some interesting features, but it still couldn't beat
good ol' 35mm.

And then came digital...
 >> Stay informed about: Goodbye to APS, and Question About CD-Rs. 

Rudy Benner wrote:
 > Is there any difference between data or music CD-rs? I don't think there is.
 >

There is a difference between blank CDs sold labelled as music as
opposed to data CDs.
Blank "music" CDs work in stand-alone CD recorders, like the stereo
systems that have recorders and cannot use standard data CD blanks.
I believe that there must some sort of label or tag pre-burnt into the
boot(?) sector of the music CD blank that the recorder can recognise.

The "music" labelled disks are more expensive and so I've never bothered
trying them in my computer to burn data onto.
 >> Stay informed about: Goodbye to APS, and Question About CD-Rs. 

I wouldn't use the cheapie spindled no-nmae CD-R for anything but temporary
use. I would archive on the Delkin Gold CD-R's. I have a few de-laminated
CD's from about 1998, and several that look ok but can't be read.


"Rudy Benner" wrote in message

 > Is there any difference between data or music CD-rs? I don't think there
is.
 >


  > > Hi darrell,
  > >
  > > Thanks a lot for your helpful reply. In the meantime, I copied a CF card
  > > to a
  > > Maxell blank CD-R, and was then able to print from the CD-R with no
  > > problem.I've
  > > been using both data and music Maxell CD-R blanks for several years,
with
  > > no
  > > problems to date.
  > >
  > > Mort
  > >
  > > Darrell wrote:
  > >


   > >> > After 8 years of using my Elph and Elph 2 cameras, I have finally
   > >> > succumbed to the siren song of digital, inspired by Kodak's worsening
   > >> > processing of APS and their taking longer and longer to deliver the
   > >> > prints and reprints, all with the data on the back smeared and
   > >> > illegible.
   > >> >
   > >> APS, the let's reinvent the wheel. Kodak last attempt was "Disc Film"
in
   > >> the
   > >> early 1980's. Kodak has NEVER got it right, IMHO they surprise me they
   > >> haven't gone bankrupt. They are a history of.. well stupidity! Let's
see
   > >> a
   > >> few highlights;
   > >>
   > >> Disk Film
   > >> Instant Film & Cameras, (aka Polaroid sued them BIG TIME!)
   > >> APS
   > >>
   > >> They never seem to be able to foresee their direction.
   > >>
   > >> > I bought a 5MP Canon S500 Digital Elph. The pictures are sharper than
   > >> > the APS, I can print them on my home printer whenever I want to, and
   > >> > even the 8.5 x 11 " prints are sharp, with good color. Kodak seems
to
   > >> > be in a downward spiral of withdrawing from conventional film, while
   > >> > not making great strides in the digital world.
   > >> >
   > >> Recently Kodak did buy the Imaging sensor division of National
   > >> Semi-Conductor. But they should have done that in 1995!
   > >>
   > >> > I'm planning to download images from my camera's CF cards to my PC,
and
   > >> > then burning them to CD-R as data. Will this work, considering that
my
   > >> > camera does only JPEG? Will I then be able to make prints from the
   > >> > CD-R?
   > >> > CD-R storage seems to be safer, and infinitely cheaper, than storage
on
   > >> > CF cards.Thanks.
   > >> >
   > >> Depends on the CD-R media, some is crap and will de-laminate. One of
the
   > >> better CD-R is Delkin's
<font color=brown>   > >> <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.delkin.com/delkin_news_press_release.php?id=37</font" target="_blank">http://www.delkin.com/delkin_news_press_release.php?id=37</font</a>>
   > >>
   > >> Just make sure you update as technology advances, I do have an 8"
floppy
   > >> disk above my computer as a reminder of this.
  > >
 >
 >
 >> Stay informed about: Goodbye to APS, and Question About CD-Rs. 

"timeOday" wrote in message

 > Darrell wrote:
  > > One of the
  > > better CD-R is Delkin's
<font color=green>  > > <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.delkin.com/delkin_news_press_release.php?id=37</font" target="_blank">http://www.delkin.com/delkin_news_press_release.php?id=37</font</a>>
 >
 > Nice link, it's good to see somebody focusing on quality and longevity.
 > I wonder if they will make DVDs though, CDR is getting small for
 > uncompressed high-megapixel photos.

Delkin is probably rebadging MAM media, they do list a 75 year DVD;

<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.mitsuicdr.com/products/dvd/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.mitsuicdr.com/products/dvd/index.html</a>

As well as a familar CD-R;

<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.mam-a.com/products/Gold/archive.html" target="_blank">http://www.mam-a.com/products/Gold/archive.html</a>
 >> Stay informed about: Goodbye to APS, and Question About CD-Rs. 

"dj_nme" wrote in message

 > Rudy Benner wrote:
  > > Is there any difference between data or music CD-rs? I don't think there
is.
  > >
 >
 > There is a difference between blank CDs sold labelled as music as
 > opposed to data CDs.
 > Blank "music" CDs work in stand-alone CD recorders, like the stereo
 > systems that have recorders and cannot use standard data CD blanks.
 > I believe that there must some sort of label or tag pre-burnt into the
 > boot(?) sector of the music CD blank that the recorder can recognise.
 >
 > The "music" labelled disks are more expensive and so I've never bothered
 > trying them in my computer to burn data onto.

They should work just as well as non-music CD-R.

I've backed up photos onto HP CD-R Music discs on four different occasions
and I used Ahead Nero 5 to create the discs. No errors were reported during
the data CD write process, and the photos on the disc were subsequently read
without error.

Other CD-R Music media may work just as well... HP Music CD-R is just the
media I had available to me at the time.

Other programs such as Adaptec/Roxio Easy CD Creator may work just as
well... Nero 5 is just the software that was included when I purchased my
CD-R drive.
--
Signed,
Daniel W. Rouse Jr.
 >> Stay informed about: Goodbye to APS, and Question About CD-Rs. 

Kibo informs me that "Darrell" stated that:

 >Just make sure you update as technology advances, I do have an 8" floppy
 >disk above my computer as a reminder of this.

Heh. I threw out my last box of 8" floppies a few years ago, because I
was running out of space & was only keeping them out of nostalgia.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
 >> Stay informed about: Goodbye to APS, and Question About CD-Rs. 

Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:


 >
  >>Rudy Benner wrote:
  >>
   >>>Is there any difference between data or music CD-rs? I don't think there
 >
 > is.
 >
  >>There is a difference between blank CDs sold labelled as music as
  >>opposed to data CDs.
  >>Blank "music" CDs work in stand-alone CD recorders, like the stereo
  >>systems that have recorders and cannot use standard data CD blanks.
  >>I believe that there must some sort of label or tag pre-burnt into the
  >>boot(?) sector of the music CD blank that the recorder can recognise.
  >>
  >>The "music" labelled disks are more expensive and so I've never bothered
  >>trying them in my computer to burn data onto.
 >
 >
 > They should work just as well as non-music CD-R.
 >
 > I've backed up photos onto HP CD-R Music discs on four different occasions
 > and I used Ahead Nero 5 to create the discs. No errors were reported during
 > the data CD write process, and the photos on the disc were subsequently read
 > without error.
 >
 > Other CD-R Music media may work just as well... HP Music CD-R is just the
 > media I had available to me at the time.
 >
 > Other programs such as Adaptec/Roxio Easy CD Creator may work just as
 > well... Nero 5 is just the software that was included when I purchased my
 > CD-R drive.

For computer use there is no difference between "music" CDs and CDR
blanks, but I am pretty sure that the stand-alone (or stereo system)
music CD recorders need the special "music" CDs.
 >> Stay informed about: Goodbye to APS, and Question About CD-Rs. 

While it is excellent advice to buy the best cdr's possible for serious
long-term archving, my hunch is that just about anything on the market
and sold through major retailers will be just fine until dvd's take over
completely. I've been burning on various cd media since 1998 and I don't
think I've lost a single disc. Occasionally I back up music files burned
a few years ago that I care about and always keep multiple copies of
important data in my computer, and on a USB hard drive I keep in my car
in case the house burns down. The important thing is to treat the discs
well once burned. Don't overexpose them to light and keep them in a
relatively cool and dry place and they will be just fine. That said, it
will be hard to beat the low-noise cassette recordings I made in the
mid-1970s and are still playing perfectly (the odd pressure pad
replacemenet notwiithstanding). Oh, and remember that if you off load
images from your discs back to your computer you must check to see if
they have been copied back as 'read only' files. If they have just free
them up in Explorer.

Darrell wrote:

 > I wouldn't use the cheapie spindled no-nmae CD-R for anything but temporary
 > use. I would archive on the Delkin Gold CD-R's. I have a few de-laminated
 > CD's from about 1998, and several that look ok but can't be read.
 >
 >


 >
  >>Is there any difference between data or music CD-rs? I don't think there
 >
 > is.
 >


  >>
   >>>Hi darrell,
   >>>
   >>>Thanks a lot for your helpful reply. In the meantime, I copied a CF card
   >>>to a
   >>>Maxell blank CD-R, and was then able to print from the CD-R with no
   >>>problem.I've
   >>>been using both data and music Maxell CD-R blanks for several years,
 >
 > with
 >
   >>>no
   >>>problems to date.
   >>>
   >>>Mort
   >>>
   >>>Darrell wrote:
   >>>
   >>>


   >>>>
   >>>>>After 8 years of using my Elph and Elph 2 cameras, I have finally
   >>>>>succumbed to the siren song of digital, inspired by Kodak's worsening
   >>>>>processing of APS and their taking longer and longer to deliver the
   >>>>>prints and reprints, all with the data on the back smeared and
   >>>>>illegible.
   >>>>>
   >>>>
   >>>>APS, the let's reinvent the wheel. Kodak last attempt was "Disc Film"
 >
 > in
 >
   >>>>the
   >>>>early 1980's. Kodak has NEVER got it right, IMHO they surprise me they
   >>>>haven't gone bankrupt. They are a history of.. well stupidity! Let's
 >
 > see
 >
   >>>>a
   >>>>few highlights;
   >>>>
   >>>>Disk Film
   >>>>Instant Film & Cameras, (aka Polaroid sued them BIG TIME!)
   >>>>APS
   >>>>
   >>>>They never seem to be able to foresee their direction.
   >>>>
   >>>>
   >>>>>I bought a 5MP Canon S500 Digital Elph. The pictures are sharper than
   >>>>>the APS, I can print them on my home printer whenever I want to, and
   >>>>>even the 8.5 x 11 " prints are sharp, with good color. Kodak seems
 >
 > to
 >
   >>>>>be in a downward spiral of withdrawing from conventional film, while
   >>>>>not making great strides in the digital world.
   >>>>>
   >>>>
   >>>>Recently Kodak did buy the Imaging sensor division of National
   >>>>Semi-Conductor. But they should have done that in 1995!
   >>>>
   >>>>
   >>>>>I'm planning to download images from my camera's CF cards to my PC,
 >
 > and
 >
   >>>>>then burning them to CD-R as data. Will this work, considering that
 >
 > my
 >
   >>>>>camera does only JPEG? Will I then be able to make prints from the
   >>>>>CD-R?
   >>>>>CD-R storage seems to be safer, and infinitely cheaper, than storage
 >
 > on
 >
   >>>>>CF cards.Thanks.
   >>>>>
   >>>>
   >>>>Depends on the CD-R media, some is crap and will de-laminate. One of
 >
 > the
 >
   >>>>better CD-R is Delkin's
   >>>>http://www.delkin.com/delkin_news_press_release.php?id=37
   >>>>
   >>>>Just make sure you update as technology advances, I do have an 8"
 >
 > floppy
 >
   >>>>disk above my computer as a reminder of this.
   >>>
  >>
 >
 >
 >> Stay informed about: Goodbye to APS, and Question About CD-Rs. 

In article ,
Bob Harrington wrote:
 >Darrell wrote:

  >> APS, the let's reinvent the wheel. Kodak last attempt was "Disc Film"
  >> in the early 1980's. Kodak has NEVER got it right, IMHO they surprise
  >> me they haven't gone bankrupt. They are a history of.. well
  >> stupidity! Let's see a few highlights;
 >
 >126 Instamatic in the 1960s; 110 in the '70s; Disc in the '80s; APS in
 >the '90s

Let's not forget 620.
 >> Stay informed about: Goodbye to APS, and Question About CD-Rs. 

"mort" wrote in message

 > After 8 years of using my Elph and Elph 2 cameras, I have finally
 > succumbed to the siren song of digital, inspired by Kodak's worsening
 > processing of APS and their taking longer and longer to deliver the
 > prints and reprints, all with the data on the back smeared and
 > illegible.
 >

I believe that you've missed the point. APS was never marketed toward
serious amateurs. It was an attempt to serve the consumer market, with a
format that was near idiot-proof.

Studies revealed that there were a significant number of consumers that
couldn't even get their 35mm film loaded correctly. APS addressed that
problem.

APS also exploited the recent advances in wide exposure latitude films, by
allowing for a simple camera, without much in the way of exposure control,
to record the image on the film, and for the lab to then correct for
exposure at the processing level.

All of this was just a continuation of Kodak's long-held objective of making
photography easy for consumers. ("You push the button, we do the rest").
That was a laudable objective. It was NOT meant as a replacement format for
serious amateurs or professionals. I defy you to show me where Kodak ever
marketed the format to any but consumer purchasers.

The APS format was stymied by the advent of inexpensive 35mm Point & Shoot
cameras, that featured autofocus and sophisticated on-board automatic
exposure controls. I doubt that Kodak and Fuji would have developed APS had
the autoexposure P&S cameras come out just a few years earlier than they
did. Those P&S models even made loading film a fairly automated task. And
with the advent of P&S cameras with zoom lenses, it really made the APS
format irrelevant.

Kodak has had a long record of trying to bring photography to the masses.
Granted, those of us that have more sophisticated equipment tend to look
down on those consumer formats. But they have served to put photography
into the mainstream, and have made it possible for the rest of us to be able
to buy film and to get it processed at countless locations.

It also enabled many of us to get exposed to photography at an early age.
Would I have become interested in photography, had my parents not owned a
Brownie Starmite? I wonder . . .

There are many millions of family photos, shot on simple cameras, that
survive today. They make no pretense to being "professional." Yet my old
family photos, many of which were taken before I was even born, are among my
most cherished possessions.

Thank you, Kodak.
 >> Stay informed about: Goodbye to APS, and Question About CD-Rs.