Dust on Negative

"ATIPPETT" <atippett.DeleteThis@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20030803224458.00649.00000812@mb-m25.aol.com...
 > On a roll of film I recently developed there appears to be small particals
of
 > dust. I assume it is dust, I can't see it on the negs but each
enlargement is
 > covered with very small white spots.
 >
 > It must have happened while drying. Is there a way to clean these
negatives?
 >
 > Alan Tippett

Alan,

Sadly, you may not be able to clean the dust off, if it is dust. I have
assumed that the negatives you're talking about were relatively dust free
from visible dust during the enlargement process. I take this from your
comments. The dust may be imbedded into the emulsion and may have occurred
during drying.

Let's make sure we are talking about dust as well. You have ruled out
the obvious, I'm sure. What I mean is, you're sure it's not air bells from
developing or drying marks, or emulsion damaged from to strong stop bath or
such?

Can you give us more specifics. Like what type of film and what your
processing technique was. It may provide more insight.

Jim



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 >> Stay informed about: Dust on Negative 

I'D put them on a reel, submerge them in a wetting agent for a coupla
minutes and squegee them clean.

Ray


"ATIPPETT" <atippett.RemoveThis@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20030803224458.00649.00000812@mb-m25.aol.com...
 > On a roll of film I recently developed there appears to be small particals
of
 > dust. I assume it is dust, I can't see it on the negs but each
enlargement is
 > covered with very small white spots.
 >
 > It must have happened while drying. Is there a way to clean these
negatives?
 >
 > Alan Tippett<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dust on Negative 

"Ray" <ral007 DeleteThis @bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:6htXa.6898$mZ6.2768@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
 > I'D put them on a reel, submerge them in a wetting agent for a coupla
 > minutes and squegee them clean.
 >
 > Ray
 >
NO, No, no, Never Squeegee Film!!! You may get lucky some/most (your
choice here) of the time, but that one frame that you really need will have
irreparable streaks!

Trust me and my personal experience! I have thrown that blasted thing away
and gone to the Photo-Flo/Stabilizer followed by distilled water trick I've
gleaned from here. No more problems. I was ALWAYS very careful with the
amount of pressure and making sure it was clean and wet before I went to the
film, but I ruined some really great shots on the Mosel River. As soon as I
saw the streaks on the negs under the enlarger (couldn't see them on the
contact sheet) that squeegee hit the trash faster than lightening...



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 >> Stay informed about: Dust on Negative 

 > Sadly, you may not be able to clean the dust off, if it is dust. I have
 >assumed that the negatives you're talking about were relatively dust free
 >from visible dust during the enlargement process. I take this from your
 >comments. The dust may be imbedded into the emulsion and may have occurred
 >during drying.
 >
 > Let's make sure we are talking about dust as well. You have ruled out
 >the obvious, I'm sure. What I mean is, you're sure it's not air bells from
 >developing or drying marks, or emulsion damaged from to strong stop bath or
 >such?
 >
 > Can you give us more specifics. Like what type of film and what your
 >processing technique was. It may provide more insight.
 >
 >Jim
The flim is Tri-x, 120, I can't see anything on the negs but when printing the
spots appear. I try to be careful with drying negs but think that is what
happened this time.

I prewash and let the developer stand until it is clear of bubbles. During
development I try to dislodge any bubbles.

I was hoping I could refix and wash. But felt there may be a better solution.

Thanks for your time.

Alan Tippett<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dust on Negative 

"Jim Phelps" <Jim.Phelps.TakeThisOut@MI.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3f2e7a10$1_1@news5.uncensored-news.com...
 >
 > I have thrown that blasted thing away
 > and gone to the Photo-Flo/Stabilizer followed by distilled water trick
I've
 > gleaned from here. No more problems.

hi, apologies for picking up the thread from here.

Could you dwell on this or kindly refer me to the relevant posting? I am
currently using a wetting agent bath (agepon) followed by index and middle
finger - I guess this is considered unsafe too?

The problem is, water here is incredibly hard.

TIA

--
Irakli
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.urbandetail.net" target="_blank">http://www.urbandetail.net</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dust on Negative 

 >Could you dwell on this or kindly refer me to the relevant posting? I am
 >currently using a wetting agent bath (agepon) followed by index and middle
 >finger - I guess this is considered unsafe too?
 >
 >The problem is, water here is incredibly hard.
 >
 >TIA
The original post had to do with tiny white spots on the print. Thought to be
the result of dust collecting on drying negs.

Alan Tippett<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dust on Negative 

"ATIPPETT" <atippett.RemoveThis@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20030803224458.00649.00000812@mb-m25.aol.com...
 > On a roll of film I recently developed there appears to be
small particals of
 > dust. I assume it is dust, I can't see it on the negs but
each enlargement is
 > covered with very small white spots.
 >
 > It must have happened while drying. Is there a way to
clean these negatives?
 >
 > Alan Tippett

Before doing anything have a look at the negatives with a
magnifying glass and see what is there. Surface dust can
usually be blown off. It could be dust stuck to the emulsion
or small particals from the wash water. It may be possible
to get embedded particals off by soaking for a couple of
minutes and using a final rinse as follows:
Distilled water to 1.0 liter
Isopropyl Alcohol 25.0 ml
Photo-Flo 2.5 ml

70% or 91% rubbing alcohol can be used if a little more is
added. The amounts are not critical. The Photo-Flo is half
of the recommended amount.
Soak the film in this for two or three minutes and hang
up. The water should sheet off without squeegeeing.
Embedded particals can sometimes be removed by very gently
swabbing the film with cotton balls while its wet. The
problem is that it might leave scars in the emulsion. Try it
somewhere where it doesn't show too much to see if it
works.
Its possible that this is something other than dust.
Routine use of the rinse above will help to prevent deposits
of particals from the wash water.
Also, filter all your solutions.
Its possible, but not too likely for particals of
undissolved chemicals to be in the solutions. However,
usually anything which does not go into solution right away
will either go into solution after enough time or will
precipitate.
Air bells are small clear marks left by bubbles which form
on the surface of the film during development. Generally,
knocking the tank just after its filled will break these
bubbles loose. Presoaking generally prevents formation of
air bells. The mark from an air bell is usually fairly
large, at least not a pin point. They are approximately
round and typically have dark rings around them because the
developer right at the edge is not slowed by reaction
products from the area which is not developing. The
appearance or not of the rings depends somewhat on the
developer. In any case, air bells have a characteristic look
and these do not sound like them.
One more thing, make sure the spots are on the negatives,
not of somethign else in the optical path or on the paper
while its being exposed. Not likely but worth a look when
nothing else seems to be the cause.
--

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk.RemoveThis@ix.netcom.com<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dust on Negative 

"Richard Knoppow" <dickburk DeleteThis @ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:A13Za.1268$Nf3.163@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
 >
 > "ATIPPETT" <atippett DeleteThis @aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
 > news:20030803224458.00649.00000812@mb-m25.aol.com...
  > > On a roll of film I recently developed there appears to be
 > small particals of
  > > dust. I assume it is dust, I can't see it on the negs but
 > each enlargement is
  > > covered with very small white spots.
  > >
  > > It must have happened while drying. Is there a way to
 > clean these negatives?
  > >
  > > Alan Tippett
 >
 > Before doing anything have a look at the negatives with a
 > magnifying glass and see what is there. Surface dust can
 > usually be blown off. It could be dust stuck to the emulsion
 > or small particals from the wash water. It may be possible
 > to get embedded particals off by soaking for a couple of
 > minutes and using a final rinse as follows:
 > Distilled water to 1.0 liter
 > Isopropyl Alcohol 25.0 ml
 > Photo-Flo 2.5 ml
 >
 > lots of good stuff cur <
 >
 > One more thing, make sure the spots are on the negatives,
 > not of somethign else in the optical path or on the paper
 > while its being exposed. Not likely but worth a look when
 > nothing else seems to be the cause.
 > --
 >
If it is difficult to see foreign material on your negative(s) and
if you use a condenser enlarger, by all means check your enlarger light
path. Find one of your "specks" with a focus magnifier then move the
negative carrier slightly. If the "speck" moves it is on the negative. If
not....
I recently found a problem with a student's lower condenser lens
which was pitted. It was a very old one (like my own) and I do not know the
cause of these very small pits. In the Omega system the flat side of the
lower condenser sits only a few millimeters above the negative so any
imperfections on that surface will be obvious in prints especially when the
lens is stopped down considerably. At any rate, we resolved the problem by
reversing the position of the condensers positioning the "damaged" lens on
top.

Truly, dr bob.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dust on Negative 

"Irakli West" <groups RemoveThis @urbandetail.net> wrote in message
news:bgr4aa$s5f$03$1@news.t-online.com...
 >
 >
 > "Jim Phelps" <Jim.Phelps RemoveThis @MI.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
 > news:3f2e7a10$1_1@news5.uncensored-news.com...
  > >
  > > I have thrown that blasted thing away
  > > and gone to the Photo-Flo/Stabilizer followed by
distilled water trick
 > I've
  > > gleaned from here. No more problems.
 >
 > hi, apologies for picking up the thread from here.
 >
 > Could you dwell on this or kindly refer me to the relevant
posting? I am
 > currently using a wetting agent bath (agepon) followed by
index and middle
 > finger - I guess this is considered unsafe too?
 >
 > The problem is, water here is incredibly hard.
 >
 > TIA
 >
 > --
 > Irakli
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.urbandetail.net</font" target="_blank">http://www.urbandetail.net</font</a>>
 >
As I posted earlier in this thread a good final rinse,
especially where water quality is not so good is as follows:
Distilled or boiled water 1.0 liter
Isopropyl alcohol (99%) 25.0 ml
Photo Flo 2.5 ml

You can use 70% rubbing alcohol provided there is nothing
else in it like Oil of Wintergreen. Just use a little more.
The amount is not critical.
Photo-Flo is a mixture of two surfactants (wetting agents)
Agepon is, I think, identical to one of them (Triton-X) so
it should work fine in the above formula.
One reason to use a wetting agent is to eliminate the need
for squeegeeing. When film is wet the emulsion is soft. The
hardener in the fixer is supposed to make the gelatin less
vulnerable to damage while wet, but it is still better not
to rub it.
Keeping dust of negatives while drying is important for
the very reason above; the gelatin is soft when wet. So,
dust settling on it is more likely to stick or even become
embedded in it.
Keeping the drying area dust free can be difficult in some
areas. There are many suggestions for ways of avoiding dust,
a google search of this news group will find some of them.
Hard water is a problem since it can result in deposits of
magnesium or calcium on the film. These can show up as white
rings or an overall coating of a sort of white film.
This can often be removed by soaking the film in fresh
stop bath for a few minutes. Then swab off with cotton balls
and soak in the above mixture for two or three minutes
before re-drying. Its easier to get stuff off film while its
wet than after its dried. When the gelatin is wet it softens
and swells, just like a sponge. When it dries it shrinks
again and hardens up. Anything on the surface may be trapped
as the gelatin shrinks. When re-soaked the gelatin will
swell again but the particals may leave scars. You have to
try it to see if the film can be cleaned.
Usually drying marks in the form of mineral deposits will
come off without leaving marks behind.
Uneven drying, which can happen when a wetting agent is
not used, is caused by droplettes of water keeping the
gelatin from shrinking back evenly. Drying marks can be seen
on the surface and sometimes will show up on prints. They
look something like the water marks left by leaving a wet
glass on a table. Resoaking _may_ fix these but often will
not completely remove them. Better to use a wetting agent or
final rinse with a wetting agent so that droplettes can not
form on the surface. Squeegeeing will also remove droplettes
but carries the risk of damaging the softened emulsion.

--

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk RemoveThis @ix.netcom.com<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dust on Negative 

On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 09:20:32 GMT, "Richard Knoppow"
<dickburk.RemoveThis@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

[---]

 >It may be possible
 >to get embedded particals off by soaking for a couple of
 >minutes and using a final rinse as follows:
 >
 >Distilled water to 1.0 liter
 >Isopropyl Alcohol 25.0 ml
 >Photo-Flo 2.5 ml
 >
 >70% or 91% rubbing alcohol can be used if a little more is
 >added. The amounts are not critical. The Photo-Flo is half
 >of the recommended amount.

Do you recommend that this mix be used as a "one-shot" rinse, or can
it be re-used?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dust on Negative