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Dumb question re: processing 4x5

 
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kwhart

External


Since: Feb 04, 2004
Posts: 164



(Msg. 16) Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Dumb question re: processing 4x5 [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>photo>darkroom, others (more info?)

"pico" <pico.pico.net> wrote in message
news:13iacqm89oguafe@news.supernews.com...
> "Robert Chin" <bchin_us.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ffd9re018fc@news5.newsguy.com...
>
>> So my question(s) is/are simple: I've heard that because the processing
>> tanks for 4x5 film take so long to fill, uneven development could result.
>
> Not if you use a film and developer you can pre-soak or use high dilutions
> with long development times.
>
>> Is this a real problem, or is it the opinion of someone really obsessive?
>
> It's a problem for people who use film/developer/temps that yield short
> development times. Just don't go there.
>
>
Depends on the tank.
Let's assume that it takes thirty seconds to fill the tank. Let's assume you
are doing C41, where the developer time is 3:15. The tank filling time is
about 1/6 of the total developement time. That's a bad thing. Now let's
assume that a different developer/temperatuire combination time is 15:00
That thirty seconds to fill the tank is now only 1/30 of the developement
time-- not a big deal.

If you are using one of the tanks where the film stands up and the tank
requires a quart/liter or so of developer, it's going to take some time to
fill. But you can process perhaps a dozen sheets at once. Just fill the tank
in advance, load the sheets in the holder, and shove the holder into the
full tank- start timing. If you are using one of the tube/roller styles
tanks that only require a few ounces of developer (they don't need to be
full), the fill time is not an issue.

When I develope 120 rolls four at a time in C-41, fill time is an issue. I
have two tanks. I load all the rolls on the 'spindle' (long center post that
holds the reels). The tank is already filled with the proper amount of
developer. I put all the films in the tank, start the timer, close the lid,
and turn on the lights. The second tank has the bleach in it. When the timer
reaches 3:00, I turn off the lights and get ready to pull the reels out of
the developer tank and put them in the bleach tank. Essentially, this
procedure makes the 'fill time' for a large tank only a matter of seconds.

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bchin_us

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Since: Sep 27, 2003
Posts: 6



(Msg. 17) Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:15 pm
Post subject: Thanks to everyone...Follow up Question... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Hi All:

Thanks to everyone who replied. This was a big help. I'm going to filter
through some of the suggestions and figure out a better set up than what I
have now.

For now though I like the idea of a dilution that will allow me long
development times. I'm using the Kodak Tmax film now. Mostly the 100, but
in the future, I will be using the others.

What is a good developer/dilution (preferably using Kodak or Ilford
chemistry) that will get me longer development times, like in the range of
10+ minutes?

The other problem (sort of) is that I like to work at room temperature
because I just don't have a lot of room now. Room temperature for me is
74F.

If it's possible, some description of how it will affect grain and contrast
is much appreciated.

Thanks again!

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Lawrence Akutagawa

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Since: Nov 15, 2007
Posts: 19



(Msg. 18) Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Thanks to everyone...Follow up Question... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Robert Chin" <bchin_us.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fhi5ei02c93@news3.newsguy.com...
> Hi All:
>
> Thanks to everyone who replied. This was a big help. I'm going to filter
> through some of the suggestions and figure out a better set up than what I
> have now.
>
> For now though I like the idea of a dilution that will allow me long
> development times. I'm using the Kodak Tmax film now. Mostly the 100,
> but in the future, I will be using the others.
>
> What is a good developer/dilution (preferably using Kodak or Ilford
> chemistry) that will get me longer development times, like in the range of
> 10+ minutes?
>
> The other problem (sort of) is that I like to work at room temperature
> because I just don't have a lot of room now. Room temperature for me is
> 74F.
>
> If it's possible, some description of how it will affect grain and
> contrast is much appreciated.

With Tmax 100, I've always liked Rodinal 1:50 @ 68 degrees for 11 minutes.
Agitate continuously first 30 secs, then for 5 secs every 30 secs
thereafter. And Rodinal is still available.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=4697

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=4698

If ambient temperature is a concern, use a water bath of 68 degrees in which
you sit your loaded tank between agitation cycles.
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bchin_us

External


Since: Sep 27, 2003
Posts: 6



(Msg. 19) Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Thanks to everyone...Follow up Question... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Lawrence Akutagawa" <lakuNOSPAM.TakeThisOut@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:7c1%i.8120$3Z2.6899@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
> If ambient temperature is a concern, use a water bath of 68 degrees in
> which you sit your loaded tank between agitation cycles.

A water bath doesn't work for me because of the lack of workspace. Plus,
I'm using those big HP plastic tanks for 4x5 film. Do you have any other
formulas that would work?

Thanks!
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pico

External


Since: Nov 15, 2007
Posts: 2



(Msg. 20) Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Thanks to everyone...Follow up Question... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Robert Chin" <bchin_us.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fhi5ei02c93@news3.newsguy.com...
> For now though I like the idea of a dilution that will allow me long
> development times. I'm using the Kodak Tmax film now. Mostly the 100,
> but in the future, I will be using the others.
>
> What is a good developer/dilution (preferably using Kodak or Ilford
> chemistry) that will get me longer development times, like in the range of
> 10+ minutes?

D-76 diluted 1:1 at 68F will do well. Ilford's ID-11 is the same. Choose
one and be happy.

I gather you prefer longer times to avoid uneven development. Good idea. If
you are doing sheet film, I can recommend Rodinal 1:100 stand processing.
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Ken Hart

External


Since: Nov 08, 2007
Posts: 10



(Msg. 21) Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Thanks to everyone...Follow up Question... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Robert Chin" <bchin_us.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fhi8us02s80@news1.newsguy.com...
> "Lawrence Akutagawa" <lakuNOSPAM.RemoveThis@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:7c1%i.8120$3Z2.6899@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>
>> If ambient temperature is a concern, use a water bath of 68 degrees in
>> which you sit your loaded tank between agitation cycles.
>
> A water bath doesn't work for me because of the lack of workspace. Plus,
> I'm using those big HP plastic tanks for 4x5 film. Do you have any other
> formulas that would work?
>
> Thanks!
>
Most chemical reactions will increase in activity with an increase in
temperature. If you use a warmer temperature for developing, the
developement time will be shorter. For most developers, room temp (70-75
degrees F) is within the range of proper use. Your goal of developing for at
least ten minutes is a good goal; shorter developer times will make any
errors more critical. If your time is off by fifteen seconds and your total
developer time is three minutes, that's an important error. If your total
time is ten minutes, a fifteen second error is not so important.

To find a developer that meets your needs, you may want to check out the
massive developer chart at http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html .

(A water bath is a good practice for film developing. It can be as simple as
a large picnic cooler. Get one with the drain spout, it will make life
easier.)
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Lawrence Akutagawa

External


Since: Nov 15, 2007
Posts: 19



(Msg. 22) Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Thanks to everyone...Follow up Question... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Robert Chin" <bchin_us.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fhi8us02s80@news1.newsguy.com...
> "Lawrence Akutagawa" <lakuNOSPAM.RemoveThis@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:7c1%i.8120$3Z2.6899@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>
>> If ambient temperature is a concern, use a water bath of 68 degrees in
>> which you sit your loaded tank between agitation cycles.
>
> A water bath doesn't work for me because of the lack of workspace. Plus,
> I'm using those big HP plastic tanks for 4x5 film. Do you have any other
> formulas that would work?

hmmm...sounds like you are dealing with a considerable volume of liquid.
Why try an experiment? Fill your tank as usual, but with just plain water
at 68 degrees. Set down and come back 15 or so minutes later and see
exactly how much temperature change has occurred. If you want something
more realistic, agitate the water periodically as you would during the
development cycle. And if the temperature differential is only a degree or
two, then try one trial negative and evaluate the results.
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bkarasek

External


Since: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 33



(Msg. 23) Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:03 am
Post subject: Re: Thanks to everyone...Follow up Question... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

pico wrote:

snip

What format are you using? 4x5? I do 4x5 to 8x10 using stand
development with Rodinal 1:100. I use trays, 11x14, when in the
developer, after a 2 minute water bath, I give them a shuffle and just
let them float emulsion side down, periodically check with my hands to
make sure one or more are stuck together. I let them float for 18 min.

How do you do it?

Cheers, Bogdan
> I gather you prefer longer times to avoid uneven development. Good idea. If
> you are doing sheet film, I can recommend Rodinal 1:100 stand processing.
>
>

--
________________________________________________________________
Bogdan Karasek
Montr‚al, Qu‚bec bogdan (at) bogdanphoto.com
Canada www.bogdanphoto.com

"I photograph my reality"
________________________________________________________________
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bkarasek

External


Since: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 33



(Msg. 24) Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:11 am
Post subject: Re: Thanks to everyone...Follow up Question... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Oooops:

That should be "are NOT stuck together" hmmmmm????? Freudian slip ????

Cheers, bogdan

Bogdan Karasek wrote:

>
>
> pico wrote:
>
> snip
>
> What format are you using? 4x5? I do 4x5 to 8x10 using stand
> development with Rodinal 1:100. I use trays, 11x14, when in the
> developer, after a 2 minute water bath, I give them a shuffle and just
> let them float emulsion side down, periodically check with my hands to
> make sure one or more are stuck together. I let them float for 18 min.
>
> How do you do it?
>
> Cheers, Bogdan
>
>> I gather you prefer longer times to avoid uneven development. Good
>> idea. If you are doing sheet film, I can recommend Rodinal 1:100 stand
>> processing.
>>
>>
>

--
________________________________________________________________
Bogdan Karasek
Montr‚al, Qu‚bec bogdan (at) bogdanphoto.com
Canada www.bogdanphoto.com

"I photograph my reality"
________________________________________________________________
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tls

External


Since: Nov 01, 2004
Posts: 86



(Msg. 25) Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:02 am
Post subject: Re: Thanks to everyone...Follow up Question... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <fhi8us02s80 DeleteThis @news1.newsguy.com>,
Robert Chin <bchin_us DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>A water bath doesn't work for me because of the lack of workspace. Plus,
>I'm using those big HP plastic tanks for 4x5 film. Do you have any other
>formulas that would work?

Oof. I wouldn't use the HP plastic tank for 4x5 film, except as a last
resort. There are other systems that are almost as compact and which will
give far more even and consistent results without the need for very long
development times. For example, you could hand-agitate a small Jobo tank
with the 2509N sheet film reel.

Though Kodak no longer recommends it, I find Xtol diluted 1:2 is useful
for longer development times. If you have very fresh developer and
ensure you have enough concentrate in the tank for the total number of
sheets it should work well. Paul Butzi's web site has some times which
have worked well for me.

--
Thor Lancelot Simon tls DeleteThis @rek.tjls.com

"The inconsistency is startling, though admittedly, if consistency is to
be abandoned or transcended, there is no problem." - Noam Chomsky
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John

External


Since: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 26



(Msg. 26) Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Thanks to everyone...Follow up Question... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:15:25 -0500, "Robert Chin" <bchin_us.DeleteThis@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>"Lawrence Akutagawa" <lakuNOSPAM.DeleteThis@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>news:7c1%i.8120$3Z2.6899@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>
>> If ambient temperature is a concern, use a water bath of 68 degrees in
>> which you sit your loaded tank between agitation cycles.
>
>A water bath doesn't work for me because of the lack of workspace. Plus,
>I'm using those big HP plastic tanks for 4x5 film. Do you have any other
>formulas that would work?

Mix up some D-23 and dilute 1:2 for 14 minutes at 70F. Works in my HP
CombiPlan.

JD
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bchin_us

External


Since: Sep 27, 2003
Posts: 6



(Msg. 27) Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:21 am
Post subject: Re: Thanks to everyone...Follow up Question... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"John" <use_net.TakeThisOut@usenet.com> wrote in message
news:cs4en39uj7fgv3orav1ti6itrhsoevh62q@4ax.com...
>
> Mix up some D-23 and dilute 1:2 for 14 minutes at 70F. Works in my HP
> CombiPlan.

Wow...This is great info. I did some reading on D-23 and it seems like just
the ticket.

Do you have anymore info or can you recommend a place to get more
information? I'd be interested in time / temperature chart and variations
of mixtures that will allow me to have development times in the neighborhood
of 14-15 minutes at about 76F.

I've already ordered the stuff to make D-23 and plan to experiment with it
shortly.
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John

External


Since: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 26



(Msg. 28) Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:21 am
Post subject: Re: Thanks to everyone...Follow up Question... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 09:21:47 -0500, "Robert Chin" <bchin_us.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>"John" <use_net.TakeThisOut@usenet.com> wrote in message
>news:cs4en39uj7fgv3orav1ti6itrhsoevh62q@4ax.com...
>>
>> Mix up some D-23 and dilute 1:2 for 14 minutes at 70F. Works in my HP
>> CombiPlan.
>
>Wow...This is great info. I did some reading on D-23 and it seems like just
>the ticket.
>
>Do you have anymore info or can you recommend a place to get more
>information? I'd be interested in time / temperature chart and variations
>of mixtures that will allow me to have development times in the neighborhood
>of 14-15 minutes at about 76F.
>
>I've already ordered the stuff to make D-23 and plan to experiment with it
>shortly.

It's a decent mix. And 76F is about the temp of the tap water here in
TN in the summertime. Try 1:3 at 76 for 15 minutes.

JD
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user

External


Since: Dec 31, 2007
Posts: 133



(Msg. 29) Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Thanks to everyone...Follow up Question... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <9v8nn3t7ujph9ecdgiq3mfoaot23j1b6ur RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
John <use_net RemoveThis @usenet.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 09:21:47 -0500, "Robert Chin" <bchin_us RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >"John" <use_net RemoveThis @usenet.com> wrote in message
> >news:cs4en39uj7fgv3orav1ti6itrhsoevh62q@4ax.com...
> >>
> >> Mix up some D-23 and dilute 1:2 for 14 minutes at 70F. Works in my HP
> >> CombiPlan.
> >
> >Wow...This is great info. I did some reading on D-23 and it seems like just
> >the ticket.
> >
> >Do you have anymore info or can you recommend a place to get more
> >information? I'd be interested in time / temperature chart and variations
> >of mixtures that will allow me to have development times in the neighborhood
> >of 14-15 minutes at about 76F.
> >
> >I've already ordered the stuff to make D-23 and plan to experiment with it
> >shortly.
>
> It's a decent mix. And 76F is about the temp of the tap water here in
> TN in the summertime. Try 1:3 at 76 for 15 minutes.
>
> JD

Yep I think D23 does pretty good as well. After trying it upon your
suggestion I would say its my second next favorite- PMK being my
firstest.

--
Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back.
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