Disposal of developing chemicals at home

The kitchen sink is definately a bad idea, and depending on what
your throwing down there and where it goes you could be in violation
of local sewer codes or you could hurt your septic system

The EPA publishes a pamphlet on effluent disposal, Eastman Kodak
has/had a number of booklets on the subject. Ultimately your
local public works dept should be able to advise you.


In article <41278eb2_2.RemoveThis@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
Ian Hodge <"i dot hodge at tiscali dot co dot uk"> wrote:

 > I am in the final stages of re-setting up my darkroom stuff and now,
 > having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc
 > down the kitchen sink may not be a good idea. Does anyone have any
 > comments on the safety of doing this, I am concerned that there may be
 > some transfer from the sink to cutlery/crockery even if I rinse the sink
 > really well.
 >
 > Thanks
 >
 > Ian

--
LF Website @ <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank" target="_blank">http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank</a>

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Disposal of developing chemicals at home 

"Ian Hodge" <"i dot hodge at tiscali dot co dot uk"> wrote

 > having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc
 > down the kitchen sink may not be a good idea.

Unless your son likes to do very strange things with the drain plumbing
I can not see any harm.

Are you sure your son is not telepathically transmitting nightmares about
'Big Hairy Things That Come Out of the Drains at Night'?

I'd be more worried about the biologicals at the bottom of the sink
trap. But then I wouldn't be much worried about those either.

In comparison with other hazards in the house B&W chemicals are close
to the bottom of the list. The worst of them may be 'Pyro', and
that's just boiled acorn juice.

In my family it is the fastidious side that suffers from odd
undiagnosable health complaints and allergies.

Look at:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.respiratoryreviews.com/jan03/rr_jan03_hygiene.html" target="_blank">http://www.respiratoryreviews.com/jan03/rr_jan03_hygiene.html</a>

And make sure your son gets his full pound of dirt a day.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Disposal of developing chemicals at home 

As your in the UK rather than our errant colonies, all the water boards are
interested in is the silver content. Actually it's the same in most parts of
the US too, I'm involved in silver recovery & photo waste discharges at
work.

The average amateur wil not cause any problems to the their local sewage
treatment works, and no-one offers a servive to collect and treat their
waste, the quantities are to small.

Yes fixer cam cause problems with a stainless steel kitchen sink but only if
not rinsed properly, it'll eat it away slowly Won't be any problem in
the U-bend tho !




"Ian Hodge" <"i dot hodge at tiscali dot co dot uk"> wrote in message
news:41278eb2_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
 > I am in the final stages of re-setting up my darkroom stuff and now,
 > having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc
 > down the kitchen sink may not be a good idea. Does anyone have any
 > comments on the safety of doing this, I am concerned that there may be
 > some transfer from the sink to cutlery/crockery even if I rinse the sink
 > really well.
 >
 > Thanks
 >
 > Ian<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Disposal of developing chemicals at home 

At risk of inviting the wrath of the Truly Knowledgeable:

As a septic system owner and the operator of a B&W only darkroom, I worry
mostly about the silver in the fixer. I'm not a big fan of putting heavy
metals out there. I believe that the chemicals in used developer and stop
aren't much worse than the cleaners you put down the drain every day, but
since significant silver ends up in the fixer, it might be a long term
hazard to groundwater supplies as it accumulates.

There are a few ways to handle this problem:

(1) Buy a commercially available filter - see the Kodak web site.
Expensive, has a limited calendar life after first use, does a good job.
Probably not an economical solution for small volume home use.

(2) Put the exhausted fixer in a can with some steel wool. Eventually the
silver will bond to the steel wool (or so I have been told) and can be
disposed of. Of course, it you do this in your household trash, are you
really saving the environment?

(3) Get an electrostatic silver precipitator (try Porter's Camera). This is
a little electric device that causes the silver to be deposited on an anode.
It is cheap and reduces the % concentration significantly. However, not as
effective as a true filter (see 1 above).

(4) Find a friendly local commercial photo or x-ray processor who will
dispose of the fixer in their output system.


"Nicholas O. Lindan" <see.TakeThisOut@sig.com> wrote in message
news:SoOVc.7036$2L3.5671@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
 > "Ian Hodge" <"i dot hodge at tiscali dot co dot uk"> wrote
 >
  > > having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc
  > > down the kitchen sink may not be a good idea.
 >
 > Unless your son likes to do very strange things with the drain plumbing
 > I can not see any harm.
 >
 > Are you sure your son is not telepathically transmitting nightmares about
 > 'Big Hairy Things That Come Out of the Drains at Night'?
 >
 > I'd be more worried about the biologicals at the bottom of the sink
 > trap. But then I wouldn't be much worried about those either.
 >
 > In comparison with other hazards in the house B&W chemicals are close
 > to the bottom of the list. The worst of them may be 'Pyro', and
 > that's just boiled acorn juice.
 >
 > In my family it is the fastidious side that suffers from odd
 > undiagnosable health complaints and allergies.
 >
 > Look at:
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.respiratoryreviews.com/jan03/rr_jan03_hygiene.html</font" target="_blank">http://www.respiratoryreviews.com/jan03/rr_jan03_hygiene.html</font</a>>
 >
 > And make sure your son gets his full pound of dirt a day.
 >
 > --
 > Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
 > Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Disposal of developing chemicals at home 

Ian Hodge <"i dot hodge at tiscali dot co dot uk"> wrote
 >
 > ... some transfer from the sink to cutlery/crockery even if
 > I rinse the sink really well.
 >
I can't think of any photographic chemistry where trace amounts
will be of any concern. If you will be doing Homebrew, you will
encounter a few chemicals which as powders or concentrates
need very carefull handling.
Better to keep your son from Tuna, Albacore in particular. Dan<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Disposal of developing chemicals at home 

You should try drinking them, or have you already?

In article <2fd2ff8c.0408211501.2aed81a.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>,
mikescarpitti.RemoveThis@yahoo.com (Michael Scarpitti) wrote:

 > Just flush woth plrnty of water. B&W chemicals are very safe.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Disposal of developing chemicals at home 

I have a similar concern getting chemicals near the kitchen. I believe
everyone when they say that developer, stop, and unused fixer are no
more harmful than other chemaicals you put down the sink, but in my
house we generally avoid the sorts of chemicals that your average
American household would use. I am probably more careful than most
folks here would think necessary, but there's no harm in being
cautious.

What worked for me both in terms of this concern and the way our space
is was to build a wooden sink that sits on top of removablel legs and
stands over the toilet. I set a drain in the middle of the sink and
have an inexpensive PVC drain tube that delivers the chemicals right
into the toilet. The only inconvenience is setting up and tearing down
the sink when not in use, but that's dictated by the size of our
living space.

I keep all chemicals stored under the bathroom sink with child-proof
locks and everything else above the toilet on a shelf we just
installed. I am fortunate in having a bathroom that already has a
built-in ventillation fan and a window. I wear a respirator because
the acid stop-bath and fixer make me dizzy, but I realize that this
symptom is idiosyncratic (and that the next time I get new stop and
fixer, I'll get citric acid fixer and either make or buy the
non-smelly fixer). Finally, nitrile gloves (available in a box of 100
from B&H for about $14) are a good idea. For the relatively harmless
chemicals it keeps off the smell; for things like selenium toner they
are essential.

--Phil






Ian Hodge <"i dot hodge at tiscali dot co dot uk"> wrote in message news:<41278eb2_2.RemoveThis@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>...
 > I am in the final stages of re-setting up my darkroom stuff and now,
 > having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc
 > down the kitchen sink may not be a good idea. Does anyone have any
 > comments on the safety of doing this, I am concerned that there may be
 > some transfer from the sink to cutlery/crockery even if I rinse the sink
 > really well.
 >
 > Thanks
 >
 > Ian<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Disposal of developing chemicals at home 

A Concerned Contributer wrote:

 > You should try drinking them, or have you already?
 >
 > In article <2fd2ff8c.0408211501.2aed81a.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>,
 > mikescarpitti.DeleteThis@yahoo.com (Michael Scarpitti) wrote:
 >
 >
  >>Just flush woth plrnty of water. B&W chemicals are very safe.

Here's one you can surely get away with drinking: Caffenol, a developer
made from only coffee and sodium carbonate. Coffee certainly isn't
significantly toxic, and sodium carbonate will be converted to carbon
dioxide and table salt when it reacts with acid in your stomach. Given
the way it smells, though, you're unlikely to drink any, much less a
large dose.

For that matter, old-fashioned hypo fixer (sodium thiosulfate) is the
specific antidote for cyanide poisoning (though MacGyver improvisations
aside, it has to be injected to do any good, and within about fifteen
seconds of exposure to prussic acid or potassium/sodium cyanide), and
isn't particularly toxic until it picks up a load of dissolved silver.

Beyond that, if you're not specifically sensitive to metol, you could
probably drink a small amount of D-76 without harm, though I certainly
wouldn't recommend actually trying it -- but borax isn't very toxic,
sodium sulfite is a food additive, and hydroquinone and metol are both
present in sufficiently small quantity that you'd have to drink quite a
bit of D-76 to get harmful doses. Given what it must taste like with
the amount of sulfite and borax in it, that's not very likely...

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm" target="_blank">http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm</a>
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Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Disposal of developing chemicals at home 

Donald Qualls wrote (in part):
 > A Concerned Contributer wrote:
 >
  >> You should try drinking them, or have you already?
  >>
  >> In article <2fd2ff8c.0408211501.2aed81a RemoveThis @posting.google.com>,
  >> mikescarpitti RemoveThis @yahoo.com (Michael Scarpitti) wrote:
  >>
  >>
   >>> Just flush woth plrnty of water. B&W chemicals are very safe.
 >
 >
 > Here's one you can surely get away with drinking: Caffenol, a developer
 > made from only coffee and sodium carbonate. Coffee certainly isn't
 > significantly toxic, and sodium carbonate will be converted to carbon
 > dioxide and table salt when it reacts with acid in your stomach. Given
 > the way it smells, though, you're unlikely to drink any, much less a
 > large dose.
 >
Some evidence seems to show that coffee (even decaf) increases the risk of
pancreatic cancer. If so, this may not be immediately toxic as would
cyanide, but long-term you may still wish to avoid it.

--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 241939.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://counter.li.org" target="_blank">http://counter.li.org</a>
^^-^^ 08:00:00 up 17 days, 23:37, 3 users, load average: 4.16, 4.18, 4.20<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Disposal of developing chemicals at home 

Jean-David Beyer wrote:

 > Donald Qualls wrote (in part):
 >
  >> A Concerned Contributer wrote:
  >>
   >>> You should try drinking them, or have you already?
   >>>
   >>> In article <2fd2ff8c.0408211501.2aed81a.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>,
   >>> mikescarpitti.RemoveThis@yahoo.com (Michael Scarpitti) wrote:
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>> Just flush woth plrnty of water. B&W chemicals are very safe.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> Here's one you can surely get away with drinking: Caffenol, a
  >> developer made from only coffee and sodium carbonate. Coffee
  >> certainly isn't significantly toxic, and sodium carbonate will be
  >> converted to carbon dioxide and table salt when it reacts with acid in
  >> your stomach. Given the way it smells, though, you're unlikely to
  >> drink any, much less a large dose.
  >>
 > Some evidence seems to show that coffee (even decaf) increases the risk
 > of pancreatic cancer. If so, this may not be immediately toxic as would
 > cyanide, but long-term you may still wish to avoid it.
 >

That's an interesting juxtaposition with recent research that suggests
drinking coffee may reduce the risk of Type II diabetes. In any case,
drinking even Caffenol isn't recommended; my comment was simply that
developers need not be much more toxic than things we do routinely drink
(like whiskey).

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm" target="_blank">http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm</a>
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm" target="_blank">http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm</a>

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Disposal of developing chemicals at home 

Dan Quinn wrote:

 > Ian Hodge <"i dot hodge at tiscali dot co dot uk"> wrote
 >
  >>... some transfer from the sink to cutlery/crockery even if
  >>I rinse the sink really well.
  >>
 >
 > I can't think of any photographic chemistry where trace amounts
 > will be of any concern. If you will be doing Homebrew, you will
 > encounter a few chemicals which as powders or concentrates
 > need very carefull handling.
 > Better to keep your son from Tuna, Albacore in particular. Dan

Not to mention farm-raised salmon, which the FDA is now recommending
pregnant women avoid and children eat no more than once a week.

--
I may be a scwewy wabbit, but I'm not going to Alcatwaz!
-- E. J. Fudd, 1954

Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
Lathe Building Pages <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm" target="_blank">http://silent1.home.netcom.com/HomebuiltLathe.htm</a>
Speedway 7x12 Lathe Pages <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm" target="_blank">http://silent1.home.netcom.com/my7x12.htm</a>

Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
and don't expect them to be perfect.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Disposal of developing chemicals at home 

Phil Glaser wrote:
 > I have a similar concern getting chemicals near the kitchen. I believe
 > everyone when they say that developer, stop, and unused fixer are no
 > more harmful than other chemaicals you put down the sink, but in my
 > house we generally avoid the sorts of chemicals that your average
 > American household would use. I am probably more careful than most
 > folks here would think necessary, but there's no harm in being
 > cautious.
 >
 > What worked for me both in terms of this concern and the way our space
 > is was to build a wooden sink that sits on top of removablel legs and
 > stands over the toilet. I set a drain in the middle of the sink and
 > have an inexpensive PVC drain tube that delivers the chemicals right
 > into the toilet. The only inconvenience is setting up and tearing down
 > the sink when not in use, but that's dictated by the size of our
 > living space.
 >
 > I keep all chemicals stored under the bathroom sink with child-proof
 > locks and everything else above the toilet on a shelf we just
 > installed. I am fortunate in having a bathroom that already has a
 > built-in ventillation fan and a window. I wear a respirator because
 > the acid stop-bath and fixer make me dizzy, but I realize that this
 > symptom is idiosyncratic (and that the next time I get new stop and
 > fixer, I'll get citric acid fixer and either make or buy the
 > non-smelly fixer). Finally, nitrile gloves (available in a box of 100
 > from B&H for about $14) are a good idea. For the relatively harmless
 > chemicals it keeps off the smell; for things like selenium toner they
 > are essential.
 >
 > --Phil
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > Ian Hodge <"i dot hodge at tiscali dot co dot uk"> wrote in message news:<41278eb2_2.RemoveThis@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>...
 >
  >>I am in the final stages of re-setting up my darkroom stuff and now,
  >>having a young son, I am concerned that disposing of used dev, fix etc
  >>down the kitchen sink may not be a good idea. Does anyone have any
  >>comments on the safety of doing this, I am concerned that there may be
  >>some transfer from the sink to cutlery/crockery even if I rinse the sink
  >>really well.
  >>
  >>Thanks
  >>
  >>Ian
Phil

Thanks for this. I was thinking of something similar but for the kitchen
sink with a tube going down the plug hole. That way I can wash prints
and dispose of used chemicals without them coming in contact with the
sink itself. The alternative is to work out of the kitchen and dispose
of the chemicals in a bucket (film developing) and then put them down
the drain outside. I just leave me not being able to wash prints, other
than outside as we have an outside tap. This makes darkroom work a fair
weather hobby...

Thanks

Ian<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Disposal of developing chemicals at home 

On 22 Aug 2004 01:40:29 -0700, dan.c.quinn.RemoveThis@att.net (Dan Quinn) wrote:

 > Better to keep your son from Tuna, Albacore in particular. Dan

  Yummy ! Mercury au tartar!


Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.darkroompro.com" target="_blank">http://www.darkroompro.com</a>
Please remove the "_" when replying via email<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Disposal of developing chemicals at home