Dark-skinned subject

In article <cqflen$6oi$1@news.xmission.com>, <moonshdw.TakeThisOut@xmissionz.com>
wrote:

 > I've been shooting for a long time, but suddenly I find myself facing
 > an unfamiliar situation, and I could use some advice. I happen to live in
 > a part of the country that has very few black people. Lots of Latinos and
 > Polynesians, but very few black. I have been booked to shoot a wedding at
 > which the groom is a very dark-skinned African. (No, he's not
 > African-American. He's from Ghana.) And I'm told he has very dark skin.
 > Same presumably goes for his family.
 > The bride will be wearing white, which means the range between her
 > dress and the groom's skin tone could be pretty significant.
 > I will be using Nikon 8008 and/or N90 cameras, in program mode, with
 > flash. I generally shoot Portra, with a rated ISO of 160, but I set the
 > camera for 100.
 > So what's the best course of action? Wash out the whites to get the
 > dark skin tones? Keep the whites and risk losing the groom's face? Just
 > let the computer decide for me? Any wisdom from someone who's handled
 > this kind of shoot would be greatly appreciated.

Mmmm...35mm weddings.

Learn photography and let someone else do the wedding.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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moonshdw.DeleteThis@xmissionz.com writes:

 > I've been shooting for a long time, but suddenly I find myself facing
 > an unfamiliar situation, and I could use some advice. I happen to live in
 > a part of the country that has very few black people. Lots of Latinos and
 > Polynesians, but very few black. I have been booked to shoot a wedding at
 > which the groom is a very dark-skinned African. (No, he's not
 > African-American. He's from Ghana.) And I'm told he has very dark skin.
 > Same presumably goes for his family.
 > The bride will be wearing white, which means the range between her
 > dress and the groom's skin tone could be pretty significant.
 > I will be using Nikon 8008 and/or N90 cameras, in program mode, with
 > flash. I generally shoot Portra, with a rated ISO of 160, but I set the
 > camera for 100.
 > So what's the best course of action? Wash out the whites to get the
 > dark skin tones? Keep the whites and risk losing the groom's face? Just
 > let the computer decide for me? Any wisdom from someone who's handled
 > this kind of shoot would be greatly appreciated.

Expose everything normally. Dark skin in white clothing is no different
from pale skin in black clothing.

The only difference I've ever noticed is that black skin tends to
benefit from diffuse lighting, and pale skin tends to benefit from more
directional sources. But you won't have much control over that outside
a studio.

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Randall Ainsworth writes:

 > Mmmm...35mm weddings.

Some people are making money shooting weddings digitally, so shooting
35mm is probably overkill.

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In article <kiens056d29cmaq4dcfhr6mn3e1rlr4as2 RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
Mxsmanic <mxsmanic RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

 > Randall Ainsworth writes:
 >
  > > Mmmm...35mm weddings.
 >
 > Some people are making money shooting weddings digitally, so shooting
 > 35mm is probably overkill.

Unquestionably there are all levels that one can make money doing photo.
The question becomes how much can one give the client and still make a
decent profit, also perception of quality is important. Show people MF
imagery beside 35mm and digital at an equal price and most I guarantee
will choose the MF shots. At least they will with mine versus someone
else's If price is the sole consideration many would choose 35mm or
digital especially if one is giving more prints from 35mm or the
perception of more imagery as in the case of the digital scenario.

A lot of photographers are actually charging more for the digital
weddings than 35mm. In my case I have shot wedding this last year both
as my own business doing MF weddings, and sub-contractually for another
photographer whereby I shoot 35 mm or digital. I initially found it to
be a handicap going back to 35 mm in that the other photographer requires
me to frame the image for 3.5 x 5 proofs, this means I am using less
than FF on the 35 mm. Try doing large 14+ person wedding party shots
when you are subtracting 1/3 of the frame so to get everyone on a 3.5 x5
proof. Coupled with being required to use Kodak Gold 100 for those shots
I tend to agree with Randall "in part". Digital is whole nother ball of
wax which allows all kinds of less than qualified people to participate
in wedding photography that really just don't belong. IMOP.

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"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
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is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
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Gregory Blank writes:

 > Show people MF
 > imagery beside 35mm and digital at an equal price and most I guarantee
 > will choose the MF shots.

No doubt ... but digital wedding photographers take care not to do that.

 > A lot of photographers are actually charging more for the digital
 > weddings than 35mm.

The wonders of media hype.

 > Digital is whole nother ball of
 > wax which allows all kinds of less than qualified people to participate
 > in wedding photography that really just don't belong. IMOP.

This could be said of every technical change in photography that makes
things easier.

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In article <qloos09fp4spm76c1ot4uvrhipcolur356.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>,
Mxsmanic <mxsmanic.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
 >
  > > Digital is whole nother ball of
  > > wax which allows all kinds of less than qualified people to participate
  > > in wedding photography that really just don't belong. IMOP.
 >
 > This could be said of every technical change in photography that makes
 > things easier.

Many of the things involved in film photo can be applied to digital
capture, although there is IMOP a nominal amount of easier involved with
digital (no loading film being the easiest part/changing asa).

I find myself somewaht distracted in taking digital....making sure the
exposures are spot on for reproduction. Because we are shooting fine
jpeg not raw, one must have very accurate exposures with flash and
ambient outdoors (Its like shooting blasted slides at the wedding not
CN). I find the camera to be a lot less intuitive especially outdoors
than film. Film is actually less critical even using 100 asa film.

--
LF Website @ <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank" target="_blank">http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank</a>

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dark-skinned subject 

 > I've been shooting for a long time, but suddenly I find myself facing
 > an unfamiliar situation, and I could use some advice. I happen to live in
 > a part of the country that has very few black people. Lots of Latinos and
 > Polynesians, but very few black. I have been booked to shoot a wedding at
 > which the groom is a very dark-skinned African. (No, he's not
 > African-American. He's from Ghana.) And I'm told he has very dark skin.
 > Same presumably goes for his family.
 > The bride will be wearing white, which means the range between her
 > dress and the groom's skin tone could be pretty significant.
 > I will be using Nikon 8008 and/or N90 cameras, in program mode, with
 > flash. I generally shoot Portra, with a rated ISO of 160, but I set the
 > camera for 100.
 > So what's the best course of action? Wash out the whites to get the
 > dark skin tones? Keep the whites and risk losing the groom's face? Just
 > let the computer decide for me? Any wisdom from someone who's handled
 > this kind of shoot would be greatly appreciated.

black skin tones reveal bad lighting much more than white skin does.

A well exposed wedding photo should be able to show detail in both the
white wedding dress and the black tux.

go grab a catalog with shots of black purses and shoes, leather jackets. Do
they screw up the exposure (would be evident in the surrounding details) do
the models look blown out, does the background look fried compared to the
shot with the white shoes? usually not.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dark-skinned subject 

Mxsmanic <mxsmanic.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> writes:

 > Randall Ainsworth writes:
 >
  >> Mmmm...35mm weddings.
 >
 > Some people are making money shooting weddings digitally, so shooting
 > 35mm is probably overkill.

6MP is better for a wedding than any 35mm film I've used. Weddings
aren't about resolution, they're about *smoothness*. Mostly I use
*both*, myself -- mostly because I don't have a second digital body,
and also because the TTL flash works much better with film than with
digital (my S2 not supporting the newer flash automation scheme that
handles that).
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/> <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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In article <231220042141076373%rag@nospam.techline.com>,
rag.TakeThisOut@nospam.techline.com says...
 > In article <cqflen$6oi$1@news.xmission.com>, <moonshdw.TakeThisOut@xmissionz.com>
 > wrote:
 >
  > > I've been shooting for a long time, but suddenly I find myself facing
  > > an unfamiliar situation, and I could use some advice. I happen to live in
  > > a part of the country that has very few black people. Lots of Latinos and
  > > Polynesians, but very few black. I have been booked to shoot a wedding at
  > > which the groom is a very dark-skinned African. (No, he's not
  > > African-American. He's from Ghana.) And I'm told he has very dark skin.
  > > Same presumably goes for his family.
  > > The bride will be wearing white, which means the range between her
  > > dress and the groom's skin tone could be pretty significant.
  > > I will be using Nikon 8008 and/or N90 cameras, in program mode, with
  > > flash. I generally shoot Portra, with a rated ISO of 160, but I set the
  > > camera for 100.
  > > So what's the best course of action? Wash out the whites to get the
  > > dark skin tones? Keep the whites and risk losing the groom's face? Just
  > > let the computer decide for me? Any wisdom from someone who's handled
  > > this kind of shoot would be greatly appreciated.

Cue the fossil...

 > Mmmm...35mm weddings.
 >
 > Learn photography and let someone else do the wedding.

Right on time. Learn to work that 10D yet?

Marc<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Mxsmanic <mxsmanic.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

 > Expose everything normally. Dark skin in white clothing is no different
 > from pale skin in black clothing.

 > The only difference I've ever noticed is that black skin tends to
 > benefit from diffuse lighting, and pale skin tends to benefit from more
 > directional sources. But you won't have much control over that outside
 > a studio.

Hmmm. Ten responses, one of which actually answers the question.
Thank you Mxsmanic. You are clearly a skilled photographer, an
educated person, and a grown-up. A combination of attributes all the more
valuable on Usenet because of its rarity.
Incidentally, for anyone reading in due to interest in the original
topic, a Google search (terms: photographing dark skin, IIRC) took me to
a discussion group on a page used mostly by professional
cinematographers. They seconded Mxsmanic's advice. And they did it
without the childishness of all the posts here except his.
The wedding, incidentally, went very well. I did decide to open the
shutter an extra half-stop on some shots because not only the bride, but
the groom as well, wore white. The rest of the Ghanians in attendance
were all wearing either dark "Regis look" western clothing, or traditional
garb that was a feast for the camera. I didn't worry about latitude at
all with them.
Finally, a word to everybody except Mxsmanic. The small but sincere
photo studio I work for has been in business for a quarter of a century,
and done thousands of weddings. (I'm the neophyte, with only about 250
under my belt.) And we've done every one of them in 35mm. In all that
time, we have never spent a dime on any form of promotion or advertising
other than business cards. Word of mouth keeps us hopping without it. I
know that it's tough for you to believe that you don't know everything, or
that your way of doing things isn't the only way. But it's so none the
less.
Put another way, excuse me if I don't really care how big your cameras
are or how far you can piss with them.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dark-skinned subject 

moonshdw.DeleteThis@xmissionz.com writes:

 > Incidentally, for anyone reading in due to interest in the original
 > topic, a Google search (terms: photographing dark skin, IIRC) took me to
 > a discussion group on a page used mostly by professional
 > cinematographers. They seconded Mxsmanic's advice.

By way of explanation to others who might be interested, the reason for
the lighting differences is that dark skin tends to reflect light only
from localized points (so-called specular highlights), whereas light
skin tends to reflect light over large areas.

This being so, if you light dark skin with directional light sources,
you get a lot of sharp "hot spots" on the skin surrounded by relative
darkness. If you use diffuse light, you get large areas of gradually
modulated light that show skin detail very well.

For light skin, it's the other way around. Diffuse light will wash out
white skin, obliterating detail. So you use directional sources instead
to force shadows that can bring detail into relief.

Exposure times in all cases remain the same. Yes, dark skin is dark,
and light skin is light, but that's the way you want them to look in the
finished photos, too, so you just expose normally and that's how they
come out.

If you have the luxury of shooting in a studio and you're mixing white
and black skin in a shot, you may be able to separately light your
subjects so that each receives the most flattering type of light for his
or her skin tone.

These ideas concern subjects with either very dark or very light skin.
For subjects of intermediate complexion, you have more flexibility and
you can light either way, depending on your preference.

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In article <cr6n94$e02$1@news.xmission.com>, <moonshdw.TakeThisOut@xmissionz.com>
wrote:

 > Finally, a word to everybody except Mxsmanic. The small but sincere
 > photo studio I work for has been in business for a quarter of a century,
 > and done thousands of weddings. (I'm the neophyte, with only about 250
 > under my belt.) And we've done every one of them in 35mm. In all that
 > time, we have never spent a dime on any form of promotion or advertising
 > other than business cards. Word of mouth keeps us hopping without it. I
 > know that it's tough for you to believe that you don't know everything, or
 > that your way of doing things isn't the only way. But it's so none the
 > less.
 > Put another way, excuse me if I don't really care how big your cameras
 > are or how far you can piss with them.

Any way you cut it, 35mm weddings are amateurish.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Dark-skinned subject 

In article <010120050944187257%rag@nospam.techline.com>,
Randall Ainsworth <rag RemoveThis @nospam.techline.com> wrote:

 > In article <cr6n94$e02$1@news.xmission.com>, <moonshdw RemoveThis @xmissionz.com>
 > wrote:
 >
  > > Finally, a word to everybody except Mxsmanic. The small but sincere
  > > photo studio I work for has been in business for a quarter of a century,
  > > and done thousands of weddings. (I'm the neophyte, with only about 250
  > > under my belt.) And we've done every one of them in 35mm. In all that
  > > time, we have never spent a dime on any form of promotion or advertising
  > > other than business cards. Word of mouth keeps us hopping without it. I
  > > know that it's tough for you to believe that you don't know everything, or
  > > that your way of doing things isn't the only way. But it's so none the
  > > less.
  > > Put another way, excuse me if I don't really care how big your cameras
  > > are or how far you can piss with them.
 >
 > Any way you cut it, 35mm weddings are amateurish.

And one would think if he had 250 weddings experience he would have known
how to shoot "dark skin".
--
In my book its another pointless post from another
nameless nobody. I hope it made you feel better.
--
LOL.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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