Carl Zeiss Jena 21cm F6.3

gazolba wrote:

 > I just aquired this lens and was wondering if anyone can tell me its age.
 > Its all brass, painted black, uncoated, no shutter, serial number 871006.
 > Has stop settings to F45. On the barrel is engraved IV1 and on the screw
 > mount (44mm) is engraved 1006.
 > David

I have a likely similar old lens. It is a Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar 1:4,5
f=21cm. No shutter, but marking of N60 on the barrel, which I assume matches
the 60 mm diameter for mounting a shutter, or other accessory. The serial
number on mine is 1638815, and it is also a brass lens, painted black.
Unfortunately, I had trouble going through the Zeiss serial numbers, and
found two dates, without being really sure which was correct. The early date
I found was 1924, while the later date was 1936, but I don't know if either
is accurate. Judging by your lower number, it would seem that your examples
is much earlier, by several years, from either date I found.

What I really wonder about is what shutter these might have used. I would
guess some form of Compound shutter would have worked, or maybe none at all.
This also leads to what shutter would work today on these. One could always
just use the lens cap, though I think a slightly more accurate method would
be nicer.

Best of luck with your search.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
<http://www.allgstudio.com><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Carl Zeiss Jena 21cm F6.3 

Gordon Moat <moat RemoveThis @attglobal.net> wrote:

 >
 > What I really wonder about is what shutter these might have used. I would
 > guess some form of Compound shutter would have worked, or maybe none at all.
 > This also leads to what shutter would work today on these. One could always
 > just use the lens cap, though I think a slightly more accurate method would
 > be nicer.


Packard shutter. You can always have the lens machined to fit a modern
shutter but at a price that likely won't make sense.

  Nick<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Carl Zeiss Jena 21cm F6.3 

"gazolba" <mcsparron.RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ix_5e.23845$Xs.984@fed1read03...
 >I just aquired this lens and was wondering if anyone can
 >tell me its age.
 > Its all brass, painted black, uncoated, no shutter, serial
 > number 871006.
 > Has stop settings to F45. On the barrel is engraved IV1
 > and on the screw
 > mount (44mm) is engraved 1006.
 > David
 >
As promised, here is some age info. The serial number
list has a break in it between 798251 (1927) and 903096
(1928). This is probably an artifact due to incomplete
records but it does date the lens. I said before I didn't
know what the 1006 was, well, I guess I was half asleep, its
the last four digits of the serial number. Zeiss marked many
lenses this way so that front and back cells would not be
mixed up.
IV-1 is the size of the front cell. This was used to
match filters, accrssory lenses, and other stuff which
mounted on the lens. Cell sizes are also shown on
convertible lenses so that sets of cells will fit a given
barrel or shutter.
I have temporarily misplaced my old Zeiss catalogues but
my memory is that the _Carl Zeiss_ lens was an economy
version of the Tessar. I've never had one of these to
examine so I don't know its quality but most Zeiss lenses
are of good quality. I will post again if I can find where I
put the catalogues. I boxed up a lot of books during a
recent spate of house repair and have not shelved it again
yet.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk.RemoveThis@ix.netcom.com<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Carl Zeiss Jena 21cm F6.3 

Thanks for the interesting information. I was hoping from the information
you gave that a series VI filter might fit on front but no such luck. Is
there any way to tell the filter size and the size of the screw on the back,
I'd like to try and find a retaining ring to fit the back, so I can try it
on a lensboard. I thought the filter size might be 40.5mm but I have one of
those and its a little too big.
- David.

"Richard Knoppow" <dickburk.DeleteThis@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:EAC6e.4366$lP1.1285@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
 >
 > "gazolba" <mcsparron.DeleteThis@cox.net> wrote in message
 > news:ix_5e.23845$Xs.984@fed1read03...
  > >I just aquired this lens and was wondering if anyone can
  > >tell me its age.
  > > Its all brass, painted black, uncoated, no shutter, serial
  > > number 871006.
  > > Has stop settings to F45. On the barrel is engraved IV1
  > > and on the screw
  > > mount (44mm) is engraved 1006.
  > > David
  > >
 > As promised, here is some age info. The serial number
 > list has a break in it between 798251 (1927) and 903096
 > (1928). This is probably an artifact due to incomplete
 > records but it does date the lens. I said before I didn't
 > know what the 1006 was, well, I guess I was half asleep, its
 > the last four digits of the serial number. Zeiss marked many
 > lenses this way so that front and back cells would not be
 > mixed up.
 > IV-1 is the size of the front cell. This was used to
 > match filters, accrssory lenses, and other stuff which
 > mounted on the lens. Cell sizes are also shown on
 > convertible lenses so that sets of cells will fit a given
 > barrel or shutter.
 > I have temporarily misplaced my old Zeiss catalogues but
 > my memory is that the _Carl Zeiss_ lens was an economy
 > version of the Tessar. I've never had one of these to
 > examine so I don't know its quality but most Zeiss lenses
 > are of good quality. I will post again if I can find where I
 > put the catalogues. I boxed up a lot of books during a
 > recent spate of house repair and have not shelved it again
 > yet.
 >
 >
 > --
 > ---
 > Richard Knoppow
 > Los Angeles, CA, USA
 > dickburk.DeleteThis@ix.netcom.com
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Carl Zeiss Jena 21cm F6.3 

I'm planning to try mine on a focal-plane shutter equipped Speed-Graphic
camera.
I do need to find a retaining ring that fits the rear thread however.
- David

"Gordon Moat" <moat.DeleteThis@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:425AC3C6.45E8C0ED@attglobal.net...
 > gazolba wrote:
 >
  > > I just aquired this lens and was wondering if anyone can tell me its
age.
  > > Its all brass, painted black, uncoated, no shutter, serial number
871006.
  > > Has stop settings to F45. On the barrel is engraved IV1 and on the screw
  > > mount (44mm) is engraved 1006.
  > > David
 >
 > I have a likely similar old lens. It is a Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar 1:4,5
 > f=21cm. No shutter, but marking of N60 on the barrel, which I assume
matches
 > the 60 mm diameter for mounting a shutter, or other accessory. The serial
 > number on mine is 1638815, and it is also a brass lens, painted black.
 > Unfortunately, I had trouble going through the Zeiss serial numbers, and
 > found two dates, without being really sure which was correct. The early
date
 > I found was 1924, while the later date was 1936, but I don't know if
either
 > is accurate. Judging by your lower number, it would seem that your
examples
 > is much earlier, by several years, from either date I found.
 >
 > What I really wonder about is what shutter these might have used. I would
 > guess some form of Compound shutter would have worked, or maybe none at
all.
 > This also leads to what shutter would work today on these. One could
always
 > just use the lens cap, though I think a slightly more accurate method
would
 > be nicer.
 >
 > Best of luck with your search.
 >
 > Ciao!
 >
 > Gordon Moat
 > A G Studio
 > <http://www.allgstudio.com>
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Carl Zeiss Jena 21cm F6.3 

gazolba wrote:

 > I'm planning to try mine on a focal-plane shutter equipped Speed-Graphic
 > camera.
 > I do need to find a retaining ring that fits the rear thread however.
 >

Just use a large external snap ring, any large hardware store will have one.
--

Stacey<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Carl Zeiss Jena 21cm F6.3 

Nick Zentena wrote:

 > Gordon Moat <moat DeleteThis @attglobal.net> wrote:
 >
  > >
  > > What I really wonder about is what shutter these might have used. I would
  > > guess some form of Compound shutter would have worked, or maybe none at all.
  > > This also leads to what shutter would work today on these. One could always
  > > just use the lens cap, though I think a slightly more accurate method would
  > > be nicer.
 >
 > Packard shutter. You can always have the lens machined to fit a modern
 > shutter but at a price that likely won't make sense.
 >
 > Nick

I have been trying to find a reasonable price for a working Ilex #5, or similar,
yet the issue of machining to fit is still there. The lens was such a low cost, I
hate to spend much on a shutter. I will look for used Packard shutters, and see
what I can adapt. While the lens is not perfect, it does seem to me that it
should still be able to produce good images, or make a fine portrait lens. Thanks
for the advise.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
<http://www.allgstudio.com><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Carl Zeiss Jena 21cm F6.3 

gazolba wrote:

 > I'm planning to try mine on a focal-plane shutter equipped Speed-Graphic
 > camera.
 > I do need to find a retaining ring that fits the rear thread however.
 > - David

The one I have is very heavy for such a small lens. I wonder whether it would
hold positioning well in the front standard. Let me know how it works out in
the Speed Graphic.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
<http://www.allgstudio.com><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Carl Zeiss Jena 21cm F6.3 

On 4/12/2005 11:33 AM Gordon Moat spake thus:

 > Nick Zentena wrote:
 >
  >> Gordon Moat <moat.TakeThisOut@attglobal.net> wrote:
  >>
   >> > What I really wonder about is what shutter these might have used. I would
   >> > guess some form of Compound shutter would have worked, or maybe none at all.
   >> > This also leads to what shutter would work today on these. One could always
   >> > just use the lens cap, though I think a slightly more accurate method would
   >> > be nicer.
  >>
  >> Packard shutter. You can always have the lens machined to fit a modern
  >> shutter but at a price that likely won't make sense.
 >
 > I have been trying to find a reasonable price for a working Ilex #5, or similar,
 > yet the issue of machining to fit is still there. The lens was such a low cost, I
 > hate to spend much on a shutter. I will look for used Packard shutters, and see
 > what I can adapt.

How about looking for a Compound? The shutter of this type on my Zeiss Favorit
(behind a 150 mm Tessar) still works wonderfully well. You might be able to
find one on *Bay or even somewhere in the real world.


--
"I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon."

- Former President Gerald Ford to his golf partners, as related by
the late Hunter S. Thompson<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Carl Zeiss Jena 21cm F6.3 

Gordon Moat <moat.RemoveThis@attglobal.net> wrote:

 >
 > I have been trying to find a reasonable price for a working Ilex #5, or similar,
 > yet the issue of machining to fit is still there. The lens was such a low cost, I
 > hate to spend much on a shutter. I will look for used Packard shutters, and see
 > what I can adapt. While the lens is not perfect, it does seem to me that it
 > should still be able to produce good images, or make a fine portrait lens. Thanks
 > for the advise.


For portrait use then a packard with flash sync might be all you need.
Does it really need a #5? Seems kind of big for a 21cm F/6.3

Nick<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Carl Zeiss Jena 21cm F6.3 

David Nebenzahl wrote:

 > On 4/12/2005 11:33 AM Gordon Moat spake thus:
 >
  > > Nick Zentena wrote:
  > >
   > >> Gordon Moat <moat RemoveThis @attglobal.net> wrote:
   > >>
   > >> > What I really wonder about is what shutter these might have used. I would
   > >> > guess some form of Compound shutter would have worked, or maybe none at all.
   > >> > This also leads to what shutter would work today on these. One could always
   > >> > just use the lens cap, though I think a slightly more accurate method would
   > >> > be nicer.
   > >>
   > >> Packard shutter. You can always have the lens machined to fit a modern
   > >> shutter but at a price that likely won't make sense.
  > >
  > > I have been trying to find a reasonable price for a working Ilex #5, or similar,
  > > yet the issue of machining to fit is still there. The lens was such a low cost, I
  > > hate to spend much on a shutter. I will look for used Packard shutters, and see
  > > what I can adapt.
 >
 > How about looking for a Compound? The shutter of this type on my Zeiss Favorit
 > (behind a 150 mm Tessar) still works wonderfully well. You might be able to
 > find one on *Bay or even somewhere in the real world.

I have been looking a bit, when I get a chance to do so. So far, the only compound
shutters I have found were either too small, of had a lens already mounted. When there
is already a lens on one, then the price is much higher. If I look for a long enough
time, eventually I should find one.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
<http://www.allgstudio.com><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Carl Zeiss Jena 21cm F6.3 

Nick Zentena wrote:

 > Gordon Moat <moat DeleteThis @attglobal.net> wrote:
 >
  > >
  > > I have been trying to find a reasonable price for a working Ilex #5, or similar,
  > > yet the issue of machining to fit is still there. The lens was such a low cost, I
  > > hate to spend much on a shutter. I will look for used Packard shutters, and see
  > > what I can adapt. While the lens is not perfect, it does seem to me that it
  > > should still be able to produce good images, or make a fine portrait lens. Thanks
  > > for the advise.
 >
 > For portrait use then a packard with flash sync might be all you need.
 > Does it really need a #5? Seems kind of big for a 21cm F/6.3
 >
 > Nick

The one I have is actually a 21 cm f4.5, unlike the OPs f6.3. The rear of the barrel
is 60 mm at the threading, though I am not entirely sure of the thread pitch. This is
a large and heavy hunk of glass, though somewhat short length.

The flash sync is a good idea, and might be enough with a simple shutter arrangement.
That is something I will investigate a bit more. Thanks.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
<http://www.allgstudio.com><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Carl Zeiss Jena 21cm F6.3 

"gazolba" <mcsparron.TakeThisOut@cox.net> wrote in message
news:a8H6e.38695$Xs.4771@fed1read03...
 > Thanks for the interesting information. I was hoping from
 > the information
 > you gave that a series VI filter might fit on front but no
 > such luck. Is
 > there any way to tell the filter size and the size of the
 > screw on the back,
 > I'd like to try and find a retaining ring to fit the back,
 > so I can try it
 > on a lensboard. I thought the filter size might be 40.5mm
 > but I have one of
 > those and its a little too big.
 > - David.
 >
 > "Richard Knoppow" <dickburk.TakeThisOut@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
 > message
 > news:EAC6e.4366$lP1.1285@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

These might not be modern standard threads. Zeiss
supplied push on filters to fit over the cell. You might be
able to find a Kodak or Tiffen push on adaptor to fit the
diameter of the cell and take Series VI filters.


--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk.TakeThisOut@ix.netcom.com<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Carl Zeiss Jena 21cm F6.3