Camera and lens questions

Lens: (from around the front ring) "Carl Zeiss Jena Nr 758976 Tessar 1:4.5
f = 16.5 cm". It's mounted in a Compur shutter; above the lens it says
"Zeiss Ikon"; below the lens is: ".D.R.P No258646 D.R.G.M."; on the side is
"No108019". Lens glass appears to be
uncoated.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


This is an older lens, 165mm which is essentially a normal lens. If it is
uncoated I might use it for black and white but not for color unless you want
an image w/o a great deal of saturation and sharpnesss. In black and white you
can partially make up for this lack of contrast and sharpness by developiong
your negs a little longer. Remember, I said partially overcome the effects of
no coatings. Even a lens with a single coating would be a great improvement.

The camera is also older but very functional.

If I were going to make an upgrade I would replace the lens before the camera.

steve simmons<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Camera and lens questions 

Bill,

Not sure on the lens except I have 21 cm F 6.8 Tessar CZJ #277808 that
seems to date from pre WWI in a Dial Set Compur. It covers 8X10 and
at least on the ground glass seems to be reasonably sharp at the
edges. Contact prints are good. Zeiss Ikon was formed in 1926 so it
post dates that. If it is not coated it is pre WWII. Should be a
good lens, the stutter should be tested. The late Herr Grimes set
mine straight.

DRGM stands for Deutsches Reich Gebrauchs Muster. This was a model
registration, quicker granted and cheaper than a patent registration.
DBGM - Deutsche Bundesgebrauchsmuster, post-war German (which War ?)
for ‘registered design'. And D.R.P AND D.R.G.M ARE PRE 1945
COPYRIGHTS. Take your pick, you can find anything on Google. Go with
the coating.

The camera is a CC401 or CC400 from calumet (interestingly the model
number is not on the camera, at least mine anyway). Kodak designed it
in the late 40's or early 50's and sold the license to Calumet when
they bailed out of making view camera's in the 50's. Great learning
camera, has all the movements and is build like a main battle tank. A
bit heavy and does not travel in airplanes well (can't take it apart).
Calumet made them for about 30 years. Early ones are gray, late ones
black. Sell for about $200 (about what they did for new). Must be at
least a hundred thousand of them made. Probably the most common
monorail ever made. Go use it. Calumet used to sell a very nice
shade for it but a Lee filter shade would be a good bet.

Good Luck,

Kirk

"William D. Tallman" <wtallman.TakeThisOut@olypen.com> wrote in message news:<vj2vtpecoi3e6c.TakeThisOut@corp.supernews.com>...
 > Picked up the latest View Camera magazine, which had an article on Carl
 > Zeiss Jena lenses. Caught my eye, as I have one. So now I've a few
 > questions:
 >
 > I've got a Calumet view camera with a CZJ lens and I'd like to learn more
 > about them. Googled both with no evident results, so I'm asking here for
 > information or any reference to where it may be found.
 >
 > Lens: (from around the front ring) "Carl Zeiss Jena Nr 758976 Tessar 1:4.5
 > f = 16.5 cm". It's mounted in a Compur shutter; above the lens it says
 > "Zeiss Ikon"; below the lens is: ".D.R.P No258646 D.R.G.M."; on the side is
 > "No108019". Lens glass appears to be uncoated.
 >
 > Camera: On the base of the front standard beneath the lens mount:
 >
 > CALUMET CAMERA 4X5
 > Calumet Manufacturing Co.
 > Chicago, Illinois - USA
 > Serial Number 8045
 >
 > It has a 20" monorail with a 15" bellows. Color is grey. Has revolving
 > back with spring mounted ground glass, carry handle and levels. Both
 > standards tilt (axis not base), swing and shift; front standard has rise
 > and fall.
 >
 > Don't recall what I paid for it, but it couldn't have been more than a
 > couple hundred dollars if that much.
 >
 > I figure that I can do some amount of large format photography with this,
 > and that I would do well to cobble together some sort of shade for the
 > lens. Looks like I can use the extra rail length to support a bellows type
 > shade, perhaps made from part of a similar camera, or maybe such things are
 > accessories?
 >
 > What have I got here? Is it at all decent? If I cleaned it all up, would
 > it make a reliable user setup? Any other comments?
 >
 > Thanks all,
 >
 > Bill Tallman<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Camera and lens questions 

CamArtsMag wrote:

 > Lens: (from around the front ring) "Carl Zeiss Jena Nr 758976 Tessar
 > 1:4.5
 > f = 16.5 cm". It's mounted in a Compur shutter; above the lens it says
 > "Zeiss Ikon"; below the lens is: ".D.R.P No258646 D.R.G.M."; on the side
 > is
 > "No108019". Lens glass appears to be
 > uncoated.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 >
 >
 > This is an older lens, 165mm which is essentially a normal lens. If it is
 > uncoated I might use it for black and white but not for color unless you
 > want an image w/o a great deal of saturation and sharpnesss. In black and
 > white you can partially make up for this lack of contrast and sharpness by
 > developiong your negs a little longer. Remember, I said partially overcome
 > the effects of no coatings. Even a lens with a single coating would be a
 > great improvement.
 >


I wouldn't expect to see a "great" improvement on a lens this simple unless
you're shooting back lite subjects or not shading the lens. I have shot
with coated and uncoated tessars and if I'm careful using them, can't see
any difference in contrast. Coatings would make no difference at all in
sharpness.

--

Stacey<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Camera and lens questions 

Kirk Fry wrote:

 > Bill,
 >
 > Not sure on the lens except I have 21 cm F 6.8 Tessar CZJ #277808 that
 > seems to date from pre WWI in a Dial Set Compur. It covers 8X10 and
 > at least on the ground glass seems to be reasonably sharp at the
 > edges. Contact prints are good. Zeiss Ikon was formed in 1926 so it
 > post dates that. If it is not coated it is pre WWII. Should be a
 > good lens, the stutter should be tested. The late Herr Grimes set
 > mine straight.

Okay, that dates the lens as between 1926 and 1930. Close enough...<grin>

 > DRGM stands for Deutsches Reich Gebrauchs Muster. This was a model
 > registration, quicker granted and cheaper than a patent registration.
 > DBGM - Deutsche Bundesgebrauchsmuster, post-war German (which War ?)
 > for ‘registered design'. And D.R.P AND D.R.G.M ARE PRE 1945
 > COPYRIGHTS. Take your pick, you can find anything on Google. Go with
 > the coating.

Thanks for the info!

 > The camera is a CC401 or CC400 from calumet (interestingly the model
 > number is not on the camera, at least mine anyway). Kodak designed it
 > in the late 40's or early 50's and sold the license to Calumet when
 > they bailed out of making view camera's in the 50's. Great learning
 > camera, has all the movements and is build like a main battle tank. A
 > bit heavy and does not travel in airplanes well (can't take it apart).

Yep. Sure is well built!

 > Calumet made them for about 30 years. Early ones are gray, late ones
 > black. Sell for about $200 (about what they did for new). Must be at

Mine's gray.

 > least a hundred thousand of them made. Probably the most common
 > monorail ever made. Go use it. Calumet used to sell a very nice
 > shade for it but a Lee filter shade would be a good bet.

Aha. I'll check out the shade. Thanks!

Good information!

Bill Tallman<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Camera and lens questions 

"William D. Tallman" <wtallman DeleteThis @olypen.com> wrote in message
news:vj2vtpecoi3e6c@corp.supernews.com...
 > Picked up the latest View Camera magazine, which had an
article on Carl
 > Zeiss Jena lenses. Caught my eye, as I have one. So now
I've a few
 > questions:
 >
 > I've got a Calumet view camera with a CZJ lens and I'd
like to learn more
 > about them. Googled both with no evident results, so I'm
asking here for
 > information or any reference to where it may be found.
 >
 > Lens: (from around the front ring) "Carl Zeiss Jena Nr
758976 Tessar 1:4.5
 > f = 16.5 cm". It's mounted in a Compur shutter; above the
lens it says
 > "Zeiss Ikon"; below the lens is: ".D.R.P No258646
D.R.G.M."; on the side is
 > "No108019". Lens glass appears to be uncoated.
 >
 > Camera: On the base of the front standard beneath the
lens mount:
 >
 > CALUMET CAMERA 4X5
 > Calumet Manufacturing Co.
 > Chicago, Illinois - USA
 > Serial Number 8045
 >
 > It has a 20" monorail with a 15" bellows. Color is grey.
Has revolving
 > back with spring mounted ground glass, carry handle and
levels. Both
 > standards tilt (axis not base), swing and shift; front
standard has rise
 > and fall.
 >
 > Don't recall what I paid for it, but it couldn't have been
more than a
 > couple hundred dollars if that much.
 >
 > I figure that I can do some amount of large format
photography with this,
 > and that I would do well to cobble together some sort of
shade for the
 > lens. Looks like I can use the extra rail length to
support a bellows type
 > shade, perhaps made from part of a similar camera, or
maybe such things are
 > accessories?
 >
 > What have I got here? Is it at all decent? If I cleaned
it all up, would
 > it make a reliable user setup? Any other comments?
 >
 > Thanks all,
 >
 > Bill Tallman
 >
Well, the lens is a Zeiss Tessar. From the serial number
it was built about 1927. Zeiss Tessars are very good
performers. Even though uncoated the lens does not have many
glass-air surfaces so does not have a lot of flare. The back
cap of the front cell will unscrew so that its easy to clean
the inside surfaces.
The f/4.5 Tessar has a little residual coma in the
corners. Its gone by about f/8. At f/11 the lens is very
sharp all over.
165mm is the diagonal of 4x5 _glass plates_ which are
actually 4x5 inches. Sheet film is a little smaller, the
diagonal being 152mm. The lens should cover about a 65
degree angle stopped down all the way. This is an image
circle of around 210 degrees so there is some room for
movements.
DRP is the patent number, DRGM is something like a design
patent. These abbrieviations were changed to DBP and DBGM
following WW-2.
The shutter is a dial set Compur (rim set Compurs came out
in 1930). These are very rugged shutters which will be
pretty accurate if clean. The speed cams sometimes wear a
little causing 1/5th and 1/10th to be the same speed. The
number on the side is the serial number of the shutter. I
don't have any serial number data on Deckel shutters (anyone
have this).
I am a little puzzled by the rail and bellows lengths. If
this is the camera I think it is three versions were made, a
standard version, the CC-400 with 16 inch bellows, the
CC-401 with 22 inch bellows, and the CC-402 wide angle
version with shorter rail and bag bellows. The rails will be
a couple of inches longer than the bellows. This sounds like
a CC-400, perhaps the bellows were not pulled out as far as
they will go. The bellows were made of a synthetic so should
last a very long time is not abused.
This camera (CC-400) was originally sold by Kodak as the
Kodak 4x5 Master View Camera. They were later built by B&J
and Calumet. They were also built under the Cambo name.
These are excellent little cameras with practically
unlimited movements. They are common used now, and not too
expensive, perhaps because they have no glamour. There are
not many jobs which can not be done with these guys. While
the standard lensboard is a flanged flat metal board they
will take 4"x4" Speed Graphic or Graphic View lensboards.
This is a very usable combination although you may want to
invest in more lenses for it. The lens you have is a good
general purpose lens despite its age.
--

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk DeleteThis @ix.netcom.com<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Camera and lens questions 

Richard Knoppow wrote:

<snip>
 > Well, the lens is a Zeiss Tessar. From the serial number
 > it was built about 1927. Zeiss Tessars are very good
 > performers. Even though uncoated the lens does not have many
 > glass-air surfaces so does not have a lot of flare. The back
 > cap of the front cell will unscrew so that its easy to clean
 > the inside surfaces.
 > The f/4.5 Tessar has a little residual coma in the
 > corners. Its gone by about f/8. At f/11 the lens is very
 > sharp all over.
 > 165mm is the diagonal of 4x5 _glass plates_ which are
 > actually 4x5 inches. Sheet film is a little smaller, the
 > diagonal being 152mm. The lens should cover about a 65
 > degree angle stopped down all the way. This is an image
 > circle of around 210 degrees so there is some room for
 > movements.
 > DRP is the patent number, DRGM is something like a design
 > patent. These abbrieviations were changed to DBP and DBGM
 > following WW-2.
 > The shutter is a dial set Compur (rim set Compurs came out
 > in 1930). These are very rugged shutters which will be
 > pretty accurate if clean. The speed cams sometimes wear a
 > little causing 1/5th and 1/10th to be the same speed. The
 > number on the side is the serial number of the shutter. I
 > don't have any serial number data on Deckel shutters (anyone
 > have this).
 > I am a little puzzled by the rail and bellows lengths. If
 > this is the camera I think it is three versions were made, a
 > standard version, the CC-400 with 16 inch bellows, the
 > CC-401 with 22 inch bellows, and the CC-402 wide angle
 > version with shorter rail and bag bellows. The rails will be
 > a couple of inches longer than the bellows. This sounds like
 > a CC-400, perhaps the bellows were not pulled out as far as
 > they will go. The bellows were made of a synthetic so should
 > last a very long time is not abused.
 > This camera (CC-400) was originally sold by Kodak as the
 > Kodak 4x5 Master View Camera. They were later built by B&J
 > and Calumet. They were also built under the Cambo name.
 > These are excellent little cameras with practically
 > unlimited movements. They are common used now, and not too
 > expensive, perhaps because they have no glamour. There are
 > not many jobs which can not be done with these guys. While
 > the standard lensboard is a flanged flat metal board they
 > will take 4"x4" Speed Graphic or Graphic View lensboards.
 > This is a very usable combination although you may want to
 > invest in more lenses for it. The lens you have is a good
 > general purpose lens despite its age.


Again, thanks, Richard!

This is the information I was seeking.

Bill Tallman<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Camera and lens questions 

William D. Tallman wrote:
 > Kirk Fry wrote:
--snip--
  >>DRGM stands for Deutsches Reich Gebrauchs Muster. This was a model
  >>registration, quicker granted and cheaper than a patent registration.
  >>DBGM - Deutsche Bundesgebrauchsmuster, post-war German (which War ?)
  >>for ‘registered design'. And D.R.P AND D.R.G.M ARE PRE 1945
  >>COPYRIGHTS. Take your pick, you can find anything on Google. Go with
  >>the coating.
  DRP=Deutsches Reich Patent -- German Reich Patent (pre 1945)
--snip--

  >>The camera is a CC401 or CC400 from calumet (interestingly the model
  >>number is not on the camera, at least mine anyway). Kodak designed it
  >>in the late 40's or early 50's and sold the license to Calumet when
  >>they bailed out of making view camera's in the 50's. Great learning
  >>camera, has all the movements and is build like a main battle tank. A
  >>bit heavy and does not travel in airplanes well (can't take it apart).
 

  It does come apart--take off the end cap -- usually remove a
setscrew and slide the camera and tripod mount off the rail. Takes 5 min.
Then it will lay in a suitcase with at least 22" diag and 4" deep. I did
it many times. Watch the graphite lube on the rail--it doesn't wash out
easily...

 > Yep. Sure is well built!
 >
 >
  >> Calumet made them for about 30 years. Early ones are gray, late ones
  >>black. Sell for about $200 (about what they did for new). Must be at
 >
 >
 > Mine's gray.
 >
 >
  >>least a hundred thousand of them made. Probably the most common
  >>monorail ever made. Go use it. Calumet used to sell a very nice
  >>shade for it but a Lee filter shade would be a good bet.

Simple shades can be made from plastic plumbing step-down adapters
adjust force-fit with stick-on felt pads spray plastic with matte black
paint. Vivitar and other filtermakers make lenshoods and step-down
adapters. Rubber lenshoods are available in many camera stores and on
the internet for about $5.00 and up. There is a place on the Internet
that sells discount lenshoods, but I no longer have the website--I
bought 2 diff sizes for under $10.00 ea. The range of sizes they have is
very wide.

Michael<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Camera and lens questions 

"Kirk Fry" <kirkfry RemoveThis @msn.com> wrote in message
news:19267591.0308062229.155ef0fc@posting.google.com...
 > Bill,
 >
 > Not sure on the lens except I have 21 cm F 6.8 Tessar CZJ
#277808 that
 > seems to date from pre WWI in a Dial Set Compur. It
covers 8X10 and
 > at least on the ground glass seems to be reasonably sharp
at the
 > edges. Contact prints are good. Zeiss Ikon was formed in
1926 so it
 > post dates that. If it is not coated it is pre WWII.
Should be a
 > good lens, the stutter should be tested. The late Herr
Grimes set
 > mine straight.
 >
 > DRGM stands for Deutsches Reich Gebrauchs Muster. This was
a model
 > registration, quicker granted and cheaper than a patent
registration.
 > DBGM - Deutsche Bundesgebrauchsmuster, post-war German
(which War ?)
 > for 'registered design'. And D.R.P AND D.R.G.M ARE PRE
1945
 > COPYRIGHTS. Take your pick, you can find anything on
Google. Go with
 > the coating.
 >
 > The camera is a CC401 or CC400 from calumet (interestingly
the model
 > number is not on the camera, at least mine anyway). Kodak
designed it
 > in the late 40's or early 50's and sold the license to
Calumet when
 > they bailed out of making view camera's in the 50's.
Great learning
 > camera, has all the movements and is build like a main
battle tank. A
 > bit heavy and does not travel in airplanes well (can't
take it apart).
 > Calumet made them for about 30 years. Early ones are
gray, late ones
 > black. Sell for about $200 (about what they did for new).
Must be at
 > least a hundred thousand of them made. Probably the most
common
 > monorail ever made. Go use it. Calumet used to sell a
very nice
 > shade for it but a Lee filter shade would be a good bet.
 >
 > Good Luck,
 >
 > Kirk


I don't think DRP and DBP are _copyrights_ they are
_patents_.
Zeiss No.277,808 dates from about 1914 to 1915, there is a
break in the serial number list here.
Nos. 249,886 to 252,739 are given as 1914, 1915 is shown as
starting at 282,820, no ending number. The next number is 28
9,087 the start number for 1917. So the lens dates from in
there somewhere. Dial set Compur shutters became available
sometime around 1914.
--

---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dickburk RemoveThis @ix.netcom.com<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Camera and lens questions