CNNH! (Clueless newbie needs help)

In article <c516026e.0504040648.7c1edcb RemoveThis @posting.google.com>,
  roy.beck RemoveThis @gmail.com (Roy Beck) writes:
 >
 > Four years ago my wife bought for me some photo developing stuff for
 > christmas
....
 > They were packed away and essentially forgotten.
 > Now I am revisiting the idea of developing my own prints. While I
 > still don't have all the equipment I need to print, I do have
 > developing tanks, T-MAX developer, fixer, stop, and rinse. I have
 > about a dozen 35mm color films (C-41?) sitting in my refrigerator
 > since last summer. I want to develop them to get started.
 >
 > Now my questions...
 >
 > Can I use the T-MAX chemicals?

T-Max developer is a B&W developer. Although I've heard of people
developing C-41 film (most of which is color) in B&W chemistry, the result
is B&W negatives with an orange mask, which is probably not what you want.
I'd recommend getting some B&W film and start with that. Color processing
is a bit more complex and finicky (from what I hear; I haven't yet tried
it), so it's better to start with B&W.

 > Do I have to worry about the age of the chemicals?

Check the expiration dates on the packages. My understanding is that these
tend to be conservative, so you might be OK if they're a bit expired. I
don't know about T-Max specifically, though. You might want to be a bit
conservative on this one when starting out, simply so there's no question
in your mind about the chemistry if you get bad results on your first
roll. If you decide to replace the chemistry, you can get new chemistry
for a few dollars -- probably $20 or less for everything you'd need to
replace. If necessary, you can mail-order it from a reputable outfit like
B&H (http://www.bhphotovideo.com).

Part of the problem will be deciding WHICH chemicals to get -- there are
so many of them! The usual "beginning" developer is Kodak D-76 (also sold
by others under other names, like Ilford ID-11), but T-Max developer
should be fine, too. If you buy locally, you can ask for advice from the
store clerk.

 > If I can use them, can anyone show me the right direction to go to get
 > the vitals? (How much to use, how long for each stage, are all the
 > stages required?)

Here are a few Web sites with beginning information:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.photolinks.com/resources.html?p_page=cg_filmproc.html" target="_blank">http://www.photolinks.com/resources.html?p_page=cg_filmproc.html</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.photogs.com/bwworld/bwfilmdev.html" target="_blank">http://www.photogs.com/bwworld/bwfilmdev.html</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www3.telus.net/drkrm/" target="_blank">http://www3.telus.net/drkrm/</a>

Note that they differ a lot in the details they recommend. Any of the
procedures should work, but there are differences of opinion as to what
works BEST. You might want to review each of the procedures and then pay
attention to the differences to figure out what's going on.

Of course, you can also buy a book on the subject, or check one out of
your local library. Basic darkroom books are likely to go into more detail
than a Web page.

One critical issue is development times. These differ depending on the
film and developer you use. If you use a common film and developer, you
may be able to find times printed on the inside of the film box. If not,
check a Web site with that information, such as:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html" target="_blank">http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Times/times.html" target="_blank">http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Times/times.html</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.fotoinfo.com/info/filmtimes/bwproc.html" target="_blank">http://www.fotoinfo.com/info/filmtimes/bwproc.html</a>

Note that this all deals with film development, versus making prints. For
the latter, you'll need an enlarger (very inexpensive used, particularly
if you can find one locally so you can avoid shipping charges), trays,
tongs, a darkroom (possibly makeshift), paper, paper developer, and
assorted other do-dads. Some of the chemistry can be used for both film
and paper development, and many of the processes are conceptually
identical. Still, you might want to start with film development and then
scan the negatives or take them somewhere to get prints, at least for the
first few rolls until you get the process straight in your head.

--
Rod Smith, rodsmith RemoveThis @rodsbooks.com
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rodsbooks.com" target="_blank">http://www.rodsbooks.com</a>
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CNNH! (Clueless newbie needs help) 

"Roy Beck" <roy.beck.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c516026e.0504040648.7c1edcb@posting.google.com...
 > Hey all:-)
 >
 > I've been searching and lurking around this group for a couple of
 > weeks now and I have learned a lot. But I still have questions. If I
 > may post them here I am sure someone knows what I need:-)
 >
 > First, a little story...
 >
 > Four years ago my wife bought for me some photo developing stuff for
 > christmas(developing tanks, chemicals, thermometer, timer, etc.) I
Lucky you - I have to buy my own stuff under protest from the wife

 > never got to use them (events overcame us, we moved, had a baby,
 > changed jobs, etc.) They were packed away and essentially forgotten.
 > Now I am revisiting the idea of developing my own prints. While I
 > still don't have all the equipment I need to print, I do have
 > developing tanks, T-MAX developer, fixer, stop, and rinse. I have
 > about a dozen 35mm color films (C-41?) sitting in my refrigerator
 > since last summer. I want to develop them to get started.
 >
 > Now my questions...
 >
 > Can I use the T-MAX chemicals?
Yes and no. T-Max is not designed for colour films / colour films are not
designed for T-Max. If you were to develop the colour film in TMax, you
would get a B&W negative not colour. Not only that, but the base would be
fairly dark brown, so it would be pretty hard to get them printed. To
develop colour negative films, you need a C-41 compatible chemistry kit. I
use and would recommend the kit that Agfa make for this. Others have
suggested you start with B&W but I don't think there'd be a real hassle
starting with colour. The warning I would give though, is don't make your
first roll an important one.
 >I thought I remember when I got the
 > chemicals originally they were suitable for color films, but I can't
 > find anything definitive on that now.
TMax is not designed for colour.
 >
 > Do I have to worry about the age of the chemicals?
Maybe - I find chemicals last longer than they are rated, but I do store
them in a cool dark place (fridge). It is easy to test though. Your TMax
being black and white, I'd suggest get yourself a roll or two of a true B&W
film. Mix up your chemicals as per instructions (sorry, not familiar with
TMax, so I don't know exactly what you do there), and snip a couple of small
bits off the film leader. If you place a small bit in the developer, it
should go black within a few seconds or so (actual time will depend on
developer strength and film, some might take a minute perhaps). To test the
fixer, put the other bit into some - this time the film should go almost
clear within a minute or two.
 >
 > If I can use them, can anyone show me the right direction to go to get
 > the vitals? (How much to use, how long for each stage, are all the
 > stages required?)
The actual times will depend on which film. Assuming you get yourself some
B&W film (not Kodak BW400CN, it uses colour chemistry), you should find some
times printed inside the package for various developers. TMax is very
common, so most films list times for it. If you don't have a time on the
film package, check <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html" target="_blank">www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html</a> for the massive dev
chart. The procedure goes like this:
1. load the film into your developing tank in the dark (for a beginner this
can be the hardest bit - buy yourself a roll of cheap crap film from the
supermarket that you don't mind wasting and practice in the light first).
2. If needed, mix working solutions of your chemicals. I usually create a
water bath in a fairly large rectangular tray, that I get to a degree or two
higher than the correct processing temp by adding ice or hot tap water as
needed. For B&W the normal processing temp is normally 20C. I sit the
bottles of mixed chemicals in that bath, with my thermometer in the
developer bottle, and wait for it to hit the working temperature.
3. Once the working temperature is reached, pour the developer into the tank
and start the timer (some guides say to start the timer when you start
pouring, I've always started when i finish pouring)
4. Tap the tank on the bench a few times to make sure there are no air
bubbles on the film, then agitate as per the developer's instructions. For
most developer's this is usually continuous agitation for 30sec, then 10sec
in every minute (i use 5 sec in every 30 sec, because my timer beeps at that
interval, I don't think it makes a difference). The actual method of
agitation will depend on your tank - most instructions say to tip the tank
upside down, however my tank (Paterson) leaks if I do that. Mine has a
little spindle that allows me to turn the film spiral in the chemicals, so I
turn it slowly back and forth rather than inverting it.
5. Once the time is up, pour out the developer, then quickly pour in the
stop bath, tap on the bench again. Stop bath normally only stays in for
about 30sec, once that time is up pour out the stop and pour in the fixer
and tap on the bench.
6. Agitate the fixer the same as you would agitate the developer. The time
is not critical - for most films and fixers about 5 minutes should suffice.
The film is no longer light sensitive, so you can open the tank and inspect
the film during this stage if you wish. The normal guideline is to fix for
double the time it takes for the unexposed parts of the film to clear
(actually most films are light grey or purple, but they will look clear,
rather than murky), however a little extra time won't hurt. I normally open
the tank at about 2 minutes and check the film, if it has fully cleared then
I'll take it out at 4 minutes, if not then i'll check again at 2-1/2
minutes, take it out at 5 etc.
7. Tip out your fixer and wash wash wash, then hang the film in a dust free
environment to dry.
The agfa colour kit is very similar, however there is no stop bath, you just
go straight from dev to fix, you agitate the developer continuously for the
whole process time, and processing is done at either 38C or 30C - I
personally prefer 30C because the longer times make things a little more
accurate. Also with colour, the times are the same irrespective of the film.
Since there is little difference in the difficulty between colour and B&W I
don't feel any need to recommend you to start with B&W.
 >
 > Basically, what do I do?
 >
 > Thanks to any/all who can help:-)
 >
 > Roy Beck<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CNNH! (Clueless newbie needs help) 

Thanks to all:-)
I am now debating on whether to dump the T-max and get C-41 stuff, or get my
films developed normally (I've forgotten what is on them) and get some B&W
film.

desicions, decisions:-)

Anyway I'm still lurking and you will, no doubt, hear from me soon.

Thanks again,

Roy
"Justin Thyme" <pleasedontspamme.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:7ii4e.465$GR2.7921@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
 >
 > "Roy Beck" <roy.beck.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:c516026e.0504040648.7c1edcb@posting.google.com...
  >> Hey all:-)
  >>
  >> I've been searching and lurking around this group for a couple of
  >> weeks now and I have learned a lot. But I still have questions. If I
  >> may post them here I am sure someone knows what I need:-)
  >>
  >> First, a little story...
  >>
  >> Four years ago my wife bought for me some photo developing stuff for
  >> christmas(developing tanks, chemicals, thermometer, timer, etc.) I
 > Lucky you - I have to buy my own stuff under protest from the wife
 >
  >> never got to use them (events overcame us, we moved, had a baby,
  >> changed jobs, etc.) They were packed away and essentially forgotten.
  >> Now I am revisiting the idea of developing my own prints. While I
  >> still don't have all the equipment I need to print, I do have
  >> developing tanks, T-MAX developer, fixer, stop, and rinse. I have
  >> about a dozen 35mm color films (C-41?) sitting in my refrigerator
  >> since last summer. I want to develop them to get started.
  >>
  >> Now my questions...
  >>
  >> Can I use the T-MAX chemicals?
 > Yes and no. T-Max is not designed for colour films / colour films are not
 > designed for T-Max. If you were to develop the colour film in TMax, you
 > would get a B&W negative not colour. Not only that, but the base would be
 > fairly dark brown, so it would be pretty hard to get them printed. To
 > develop colour negative films, you need a C-41 compatible chemistry kit. I
 > use and would recommend the kit that Agfa make for this. Others have
 > suggested you start with B&W but I don't think there'd be a real hassle
 > starting with colour. The warning I would give though, is don't make your
 > first roll an important one.
  >>I thought I remember when I got the
  >> chemicals originally they were suitable for color films, but I can't
  >> find anything definitive on that now.
 > TMax is not designed for colour.
  >>
  >> Do I have to worry about the age of the chemicals?
 > Maybe - I find chemicals last longer than they are rated, but I do store
 > them in a cool dark place (fridge). It is easy to test though. Your TMax
 > being black and white, I'd suggest get yourself a roll or two of a true
 > B&W film. Mix up your chemicals as per instructions (sorry, not familiar
 > with TMax, so I don't know exactly what you do there), and snip a couple
 > of small bits off the film leader. If you place a small bit in the
 > developer, it should go black within a few seconds or so (actual time will
 > depend on developer strength and film, some might take a minute perhaps).
 > To test the fixer, put the other bit into some - this time the film should
 > go almost clear within a minute or two.
  >>
  >> If I can use them, can anyone show me the right direction to go to get
  >> the vitals? (How much to use, how long for each stage, are all the
  >> stages required?)
 > The actual times will depend on which film. Assuming you get yourself some
 > B&W film (not Kodak BW400CN, it uses colour chemistry), you should find
 > some times printed inside the package for various developers. TMax is very
 > common, so most films list times for it. If you don't have a time on the
 > film package, check <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html" target="_blank">www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html</a> for the massive dev
 > chart. The procedure goes like this:
 > 1. load the film into your developing tank in the dark (for a beginner
 > this can be the hardest bit - buy yourself a roll of cheap crap film from
 > the supermarket that you don't mind wasting and practice in the light
 > first).
 > 2. If needed, mix working solutions of your chemicals. I usually create a
 > water bath in a fairly large rectangular tray, that I get to a degree or
 > two higher than the correct processing temp by adding ice or hot tap water
 > as needed. For B&W the normal processing temp is normally 20C. I sit the
 > bottles of mixed chemicals in that bath, with my thermometer in the
 > developer bottle, and wait for it to hit the working temperature.
 > 3. Once the working temperature is reached, pour the developer into the
 > tank and start the timer (some guides say to start the timer when you
 > start pouring, I've always started when i finish pouring)
 > 4. Tap the tank on the bench a few times to make sure there are no air
 > bubbles on the film, then agitate as per the developer's instructions. For
 > most developer's this is usually continuous agitation for 30sec, then
 > 10sec in every minute (i use 5 sec in every 30 sec, because my timer beeps
 > at that interval, I don't think it makes a difference). The actual method
 > of agitation will depend on your tank - most instructions say to tip the
 > tank upside down, however my tank (Paterson) leaks if I do that. Mine has
 > a little spindle that allows me to turn the film spiral in the chemicals,
 > so I turn it slowly back and forth rather than inverting it.
 > 5. Once the time is up, pour out the developer, then quickly pour in the
 > stop bath, tap on the bench again. Stop bath normally only stays in for
 > about 30sec, once that time is up pour out the stop and pour in the fixer
 > and tap on the bench.
 > 6. Agitate the fixer the same as you would agitate the developer. The time
 > is not critical - for most films and fixers about 5 minutes should
 > suffice. The film is no longer light sensitive, so you can open the tank
 > and inspect the film during this stage if you wish. The normal guideline
 > is to fix for double the time it takes for the unexposed parts of the film
 > to clear (actually most films are light grey or purple, but they will look
 > clear, rather than murky), however a little extra time won't hurt. I
 > normally open the tank at about 2 minutes and check the film, if it has
 > fully cleared then I'll take it out at 4 minutes, if not then i'll check
 > again at 2-1/2 minutes, take it out at 5 etc.
 > 7. Tip out your fixer and wash wash wash, then hang the film in a dust
 > free environment to dry.
 > The agfa colour kit is very similar, however there is no stop bath, you
 > just go straight from dev to fix, you agitate the developer continuously
 > for the whole process time, and processing is done at either 38C or 30C -
 > I personally prefer 30C because the longer times make things a little more
 > accurate. Also with colour, the times are the same irrespective of the
 > film. Since there is little difference in the difficulty between colour
 > and B&W I don't feel any need to recommend you to start with B&W.
  >>
  >> Basically, what do I do?
  >>
  >> Thanks to any/all who can help:-)
  >>
  >> Roy Beck
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CNNH! (Clueless newbie needs help)