Black and white digital photography

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:01:41 -0800 (PST), swibirun RemoveThis @aol.com (SWIBIRUN)
wrote:

 >Does anyone have or know of a set of tips for a newbie to follow when taking
 >black and white photographs with a digital camera (Nikon 800 Coolpix)?
 >
 >I am just starting to use my camera for more than point and click photos of
 >family and pets. I want to start leaning towards the artistic side.

I'm not familiar with the settings on that particular camera, but from
experience with cameras of a similar price range... do not use the
black and white setting that is built into the camera.

Instead take a color pic and then use Photoshop to convert it to black
and white.

There's a lot of ways to go about doing the conversion, some of which
are better than others depending upon the image that you're starting
with. Read the PS manual thoroughly. Also take a look in the bookstore
-- there are a lot of good books on Photoshop techniques.


-- JC<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Black and white digital photography 

Also sprach J C:
: On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:01:41 -0800 (PST), swibirun.RemoveThis@aol.com (SWIBIRUN)
: wrote:

:>Does anyone have or know of a set of tips for a newbie to follow when taking
:>black and white photographs with a digital camera (Nikon 800 Coolpix)?

: I'm not familiar with the settings on that particular camera, but from
: experience with cameras of a similar price range... do not use the
: black and white setting that is built into the camera.

JC:

I'm curious - why not use the camera's B&W mode to take the original? It
seems to me that you'd get more information stored by only needing one bit
per pixel instead of the (8? however many it is for a color mode), giving
you a higher-quality image to work with.

I don't do much digital, mostly lots of pics of my toddler for sharing
with friends and family, and some vacation snapshots, so I really don't
know it would be better to take the extra step of shooting in color and
then running it through PS.

(I stick with film for my "serious" shooting, which is precious little
these days, but I'm learning more about digital as I go...)

--
Andrew Maddox, madsox2k, my spamtrap is y a h o o d o t c o m
There are plenty of businesses like show business
 >> Stay informed about: Black and white digital photography 

Andrew Maddox <madsox2k.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> writes:

 > Also sprach J C:
 > : On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:01:41 -0800 (PST), swibirun.RemoveThis@aol.com (SWIBIRUN)
 > : wrote:
 >
 > :>Does anyone have or know of a set of tips for a newbie to follow
 > when taking :>black and white photographs with a digital camera
 > (Nikon 800 Coolpix)?
 >
 > : I'm not familiar with the settings on that particular camera, but
 > from : experience with cameras of a similar price range... do not
 > use the : black and white setting that is built into the camera.

 > I'm curious - why not use the camera's B&W mode to take the
 > original? It seems to me that you'd get more information stored by
 > only needing one bit per pixel instead of the (8? however many it is
 > for a color mode), giving you a higher-quality image to work with.

NO. Nothing of the sort.

The details of this of course are actually specific to each camera
model. But I know of no actual example that behaves differently from
what I'm about to describe.

In B&W mode, the camera still stores a color jpeg (or whatever other
storage format is selected), of the same size as the color image would
be for that resolution. It just processes the raw data to produce an
image where R=G=B at every pixel. (And it tends to be 8 bits per
color per pixel, otherwise known as 24 bit color, except for some
high-end cameras in special non-default modes that give you more bits
per color than that.)

I'm not strongly against B&W modes in the camera; I even shot quite a
few in B&W mode with my Fuji S2 this past Saturday. But in fact you
have more control if you shoot in color and reduce to B&W later in
photoshop. (I used B&W mode so the preview was in B&W, which I find
helps me think in B&W sometimes; so I was using it to work around a
limitation in my own skills, not because it was directly technically
superior.)
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <dd-b.RemoveThis@dd-b.net>, <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <noguns-nomoney.com> <www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots: <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <dragaera.info/><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Black and white digital photography 

On 2003-12-30, Andrew Maddox <madsox2k DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
 > Also sprach J C:
 >: On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 12:01:41 -0800 (PST), swibirun DeleteThis @aol.com (SWIBIRUN)
 >: wrote:
 >
 >:>Does anyone have or know of a set of tips for a newbie to follow when taking
 >:>black and white photographs with a digital camera (Nikon 800 Coolpix)?
 >
 >: I'm not familiar with the settings on that particular camera, but from
 >: experience with cameras of a similar price range... do not use the
 >: black and white setting that is built into the camera.
 >
 > JC:
 >
 > I'm curious - why not use the camera's B&W mode to take the original? It
 > seems to me that you'd get more information stored by only needing one bit
 > per pixel instead of the (8? however many it is for a color mode), giving
 > you a higher-quality image to work with.

Color is 3x8 = 24 bit/pixel. b/w is 8-bits/pixel.

The main reason for converting to b/w on the computer is, that
you can do things like darken the skies (blue colors) selectively
before converting.

See links like these:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.wfu.edu/users/bennettk/blackwhite.html" target="_blank">http://www.wfu.edu/users/bennettk/blackwhite.html</a>
and
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.photo-i.co.uk/talkshop/BW/monochrome.htm" target="_blank">http://www.photo-i.co.uk/talkshop/BW/monochrome.htm</a>

 > I don't do much digital, mostly lots of pics of my toddler for sharing
 > with friends and family, and some vacation snapshots, so I really don't
 > know it would be better to take the extra step of shooting in color and
 > then running it through PS.

So above links. I am also just starting to do post-processing on the computer.

 > (I stick with film for my "serious" shooting, which is precious little
 > these days, but I'm learning more about digital as I go...)
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Black and white digital photography 

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 11:21:47 -0800 (PST), Andrew Maddox
<madsox2k.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:

 >
 >I'm curious - why not use the camera's B&W mode to take the original? It
 >seems to me that you'd get more information stored by only needing one bit
 >per pixel instead of the (8? however many it is for a color mode), giving
 >you a higher-quality image to work with.
 >
 >I don't do much digital, mostly lots of pics of my toddler for sharing
 >with friends and family, and some vacation snapshots, so I really don't
 >know it would be better to take the extra step of shooting in color and
 >then running it through PS.
 >
 >(I stick with film for my "serious" shooting, which is precious little
 >these days, but I'm learning more about digital as I go...)


If you want to optimize the shot then relying on the camera's b&w mode
is not the best route. If all you're taking are snap shots then what
the heck, use the b&w mode. I thought you were asking about getting
optimal images... like the kind you might print large and frame.

In which case...

Better b&w's can be created from RGB images in Photoshop. Photoshop is
more powerful at tweaking images than the chips inside your camera.

And lastly, believe it or not many digital cameras will give you a
black and white image, but that resultant image will still be in the
RGB color space (open the image in Photoshop and check the "mode"). So
I'm not sure you're saving any in-camera memory space by using your
camera's b&w mode. But then again, I'm not entirely certain about your
particular model.


-- JC<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Black and white digital photography 

swibirun DeleteThis @aol.com (SWIBIRUN) wrote in
news:20031218233904.10854.00000724@mb-m24.aol.com:

 > Does anyone have or know of a set of tips for a newbie to follow when
 > taking black and white photographs with a digital camera (Nikon 800
 > Coolpix)?
 >
 > I am just starting to use my camera for more than point and click
 > photos of family and pets. I want to start leaning towards the
 > artistic side.
 >

As others have said, it is usually best to capture a color image, and
then convert it yourself.

The camera will (usually) average the three colors, to record just
luminosity.

B&W film, however, is not color neutral. Different B&W films react
differently to different colors. In general, they are more sensitive to
blue, and less sensitive to red. When you do the conversion in Photoshop,
you can use the "channel mixer" to mix different amounts of the various
colors, which allows you to more or less mimic B&W film. Or, alternately,
you can use the channle mixer to create your own mixes, unlike any real
film.

Sometimes I convert the photo to a different "mode" before using the
channel mixer, like CYMK, instead of the usually RGB. Since the sky is
usually cyan, CYMK mode allows you to control it easily. In RGB mode it's
easier to control reds and greens -- facial blemishes and foliage.

You can also invert the image before using the mixer. There are many
possibilities.

Bob<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Black and white digital photography