Questions about AP develop tank

narke <steven DeleteThis @lczmsoft.com> wrote:
 > I got a AP develop tank, I feel that's very good. But I still have two
 > question about it.
 >
 > 1) There is a table as below marked on the bottom of the tank, and I do
 > not fully understand its meaning. Can anyone explain that for me?
 >
 > 1 x 135 / 126 = 375cc
 > 2 x 135 / 126 = 650cc
 > 1 x 127 / = 490cc
 > 1 x 120 / 220 = 590cc

That is the volume of developer required to cover the reels.
You need that much developer as a minimum.

 > 2) After a test, I found 375cc solution can submerge one reel, and
 > 650cc can submerge two. My 2nd question is, can I use only 375cc
 > solution for the processing?

Yes you can. Many people are happier placing a second empty reel
above their loaded reel and filling the tank as if for both reels.
I tend to do this, but the manufacturers of plastic tanks have
been suggesting partially filled tanks (at least for developer)
in their instructions for years, and if there were serious problems
they would have stopped recommending it by now. If you do this,
make sure that the reel has no tendency to ride up on the centre
column, if the film rides above the developer there will be a
problem.

 > be a reason that AP mark a 375cc in its tank. Actually, since the tank
 > provides a rod (on the center top of the cover) to stir the solution,
 > so I never need to shake the tank by invert it. Hence I believe there
 > is NO change the film will exposed to the air in the stage of
 > agitation.

Inversion agitation tends to work better than swizzle stick agitation.
Don't worry about the air in the tank. The film is sitting in the
developer for all but a few seconds each minute. Agitation should
be a lot gentler than the name suggests, the purpose is to make
sure that the tired developer at the surface of the film is replaced
by fresh developer once a minute (or every 30 seconds with the
Kodak method).

Peter.
--
pirwin DeleteThis @ktb.net<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"narke" <steven RemoveThis @lczmsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1112674114.469026.139880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
 > Peter wrote:
 >
  > > That is the volume of developer required to cover the reels.
 > You need that much developer as a minimum.
 >
 > I can understand that, things I do not understand are those divide
 > symbal and numbers after them. I also do not understand the "1x127",
 > is it a film format?

"1x135/126=375cc" read as "one roll of 35mm or 126 Instamatic film requires
375 cc"
"1x127..." read as one roll of 127 size film..."
127 size film is fairly uncommon, if not discontinued. Not having a roll at
hand, I can't give exact size; roughly <2" wide, it's a paper backed film
like 120 size.
 >
  > > if you do this,
 > make sure that the reel has no tendency to ride up on the centre
 > column, if the film rides above the developer there will be a
 > problem.
 >
 > Thanks. I found there is a plastic lock which can lock the reel firmly
 > down.
 >
  > > Inversion agitation tends to work better than swizzle stick
 > agitation.
 >
 > If I rotate the rod fully a circle, is it still worse than the
 > inversion? In my test with the cover and eyes open, I can not find a
 > reason why the inversion is better in the case. Maybe I i'v ignored
 > something, would like to tell me the story inside? A lot thanks!

I prefer inversion. I think (this could easily be completely bull!) that
rotating the reel can cause the end of the film to "un-spiral", depending on
which way you rotate. Also, the film in the center of the reel, by virtue of
being a smaller diameter than the outer part of the reel, gets much
agitation by rotating. Again, this could be utter crap, but I will still be
inverting my film tank!

Ken Hart<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about AP develop tank 

Hallo.
I have two Ap tanks and is always safer using more the amount of developer
suggested by the tank.
FOr Example: for 375mm i cook 400mm, for 590 I use 640, for 650 I use to do
700mm.
More, when you develop in a tank there is aways some liquid spillimg or
dropping, so this is safer.
Or sometimes you can make bubbles or some foaming and the extra liquid help you
in prevent incosistent result.
Just my 2 cents of Euro-


Ciao,
Stefano Bramato

--
ed io imparo...
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about AP develop tank 

"narke" <steven.TakeThisOut@lczmsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1112666119.575683.4170@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
 >I got a AP develop tank, I feel that's very good. But I still have two
 > question about it.
 >
 > 1) There is a table as below marked on the bottom of the tank, and I do
 > not fully understand its meaning. Can anyone explain that for me?
 >
 > 1 x 135 / 126 = 375cc
1 Roll of 35mm requires 375cc to cover it
 > 2 x 135 / 126 = 650cc
2 rolls=650cc
 > 1 x 127 / = 490cc
1 roll of 127 etc...
 > 1 x 120 / 220 = 590cc
1 roll of 120 or 220 film...
 >
 > 2) After a test, I found 375cc solution can submerge one reel, and
 > 650cc can submerge two. My 2nd question is, can I use only 375cc
 > solution for the processing? I remembered people adviced that it is
I have a Paterson tank that requires 290ml for 1x35mm. I use 300ml since
it's a nice round figure (easy to calculate the chemicals). Never had a
problem. My tank can take 2x35mm but I very rarely develop 2 rolls at the
same time.
 > best to let the solution fill the whole tank even when process one roll
 > in a two reel tank, that is 650cc in my case. But I think there must
 > be a reason that AP mark a 375cc in its tank. Actully, since the tank
 > provides a rod (on the center top of the cover) to stir the solution,
 > so I never need to shake the tank by invert it. Hence I belive there
 > is NO change the film will exposed to the air in the stage of
 > agitation. So I want to confirm that I can use only 375cc solution for
 > processing.
I stir rather than invert - my tank leaks if I invert it so I don't have a
choice. I've never had a problem with stirring. I stir gently, changing
direction about every second.
 >
 > -
 > narke
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about AP develop tank 

127 is about 40mm wide.

--
darkroommike

----------
"Ken Hart" <kwhart.TakeThisOut@aec.nu> wrote in message
news:25608$42522f0a$41808c07$6435@DIALUPUSA.NET...
 >
 > "narke" <steven.TakeThisOut@lczmsoft.com> wrote in message
 > news:1112674114.469026.139880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
  > > Peter wrote:
  > >
   > > > That is the volume of developer required to cover the reels.
  > > You need that much developer as a minimum.
  > >
  > > I can understand that, things I do not understand are those divide
  > > symbal and numbers after them. I also do not understand the "1x127",
  > > is it a film format?
 >
 > "1x135/126=375cc" read as "one roll of 35mm or 126 Instamatic film
requires
 > 375 cc"
 > "1x127..." read as one roll of 127 size film..."
 > 127 size film is fairly uncommon, if not discontinued. Not having a roll
at
 > hand, I can't give exact size; roughly <2" wide, it's a paper backed film
 > like 120 size.
  > >
   > > > if you do this,
  > > make sure that the reel has no tendency to ride up on the centre
  > > column, if the film rides above the developer there will be a
  > > problem.
  > >
  > > Thanks. I found there is a plastic lock which can lock the reel firmly
  > > down.
  > >
   > > > Inversion agitation tends to work better than swizzle stick
  > > agitation.
  > >
  > > If I rotate the rod fully a circle, is it still worse than the
  > > inversion? In my test with the cover and eyes open, I can not find a
  > > reason why the inversion is better in the case. Maybe I i'v ignored
  > > something, would like to tell me the story inside? A lot thanks!
 >
 > I prefer inversion. I think (this could easily be completely bull!) that
 > rotating the reel can cause the end of the film to "un-spiral", depending
on
 > which way you rotate. Also, the film in the center of the reel, by virtue
of
 > being a smaller diameter than the outer part of the reel, gets much
 > agitation by rotating. Again, this could be utter crap, but I will still
be
 > inverting my film tank!
 >
 > Ken Hart
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about AP develop tank 

In article <1112674114.469026.139880 DeleteThis @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
  "narke" <steven DeleteThis @lczmsoft.com> writes:
 >
 > Peter wrote:
 >
  >> Inversion agitation tends to work better than swizzle stick
 > agitation.
 >
 > If I rotate the rod fully a circle, is it still worse than the
 > inversion? In my test with the cover and eyes open, I can not find a
 > reason why the inversion is better in the case. Maybe I i'v ignored
 > something, would like to tell me the story inside? A lot thanks!

Ultimately it's a question of what works best in real life. The usual
explanation for preferring inversion rotation to using the rod to twirl
the reel around is that the latter technique can set up regular currents
that can cause consistent patterns of under- or over-development,
particularly around the film's edges and sprocket holes. For this reason,
if you can't do inversion rotation, you should move the tank around on the
table top (IIRC, a quick movement of a foot or two is usually recommended)
in addition to using the rod, and don't always twirl the rod in the same
direction.

I've only used inversion rotation, so I can't comment from personal
experience how other methods might work.

--
Rod Smith, rodsmith DeleteThis @rodsbooks.com
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rodsbooks.com" target="_blank">http://www.rodsbooks.com</a>
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about AP develop tank 

Stefano Bramato,

Hallo.
I have two Ap tanks and is always safer using more the amount of
developer
suggested by the tank.
FOr Example: for 375mm i cook 400mm, for 590 I use 640, for 650 I use
to do
700mm.
More, when you develop in a tank there is aways some liquid spillimg or
dropping, so this is safer.
Or sometimes you can make bubbles or some foaming and the extra liquid
help you
in prevent incosistent result.

Thanks. I decide to use 400cc for the suggestion of 375cc.

-
narke
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about AP develop tank 

Justin Thyme worte,

 > I stir rather than invert - my tank leaks if I invert it so I don't
have a
choice. I've never had a problem with stirring. I stir gently, changing
direction about every second.

My tank has a little leak when inversion. You said you swir in on
direction in one second and opposite direction for another second, so
in a 5-6 seconds, you only get about 3 times of full cycle swiring? Is
it enough (Kodak suggested 5-7 cycle in 5 seconds)?

-
narke<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Peter Irwin wrote,

 > it may help to put the cap on slowly.

? it heard a bit weird. Why slowly put on the cap helps in leak
reducing?

-
narke<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about AP develop tank 

narke <steven.TakeThisOut@lczmsoft.com> wrote:
 >
 > I can understand that, things I do not understand are those divide
 > symbal and numbers after them. I also do not understand the "1x127",
 > is it a film format?

Yes. 127 is the old vest-pocket format. It is largely obsolete
and I think only EFKE still makes the film, but there are a large
number of nice old cameras which take the 46mm wide rollfilm.
 >
 > If I rotate the rod fully a circle, is it still worse than the
 > inversion?

I'm sure it is possible to get good results that way. If you
prefer that method, then I wouldn't change it unless you see
signs of uneven development. But I also wouldn't worry about
a slight leak from a plastic tank. Plastic tanks tend to
leak a bit, it may help to put the cap on slowly.

Some people have a nasty skin reaction from contact with
metol and other developing agents. Other people use their
bare hands in print developers for years with no evident
problems. I used to do that when I was a kid, I didn't know
that it wasn't a good idea. If you get developer on your hands,
it is a good idea to wash it off right away. If you are
really worried, or are using one of the more toxic developers,
you can protect yourself with gloves.

Peter.
--
pirwin.TakeThisOut@ktb.net<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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 > Thanks. I decide to use 400cc for the suggestion of 375cc.
 >
 > -
 > narke


Hallo Narke,
for the agitation or inversion I prefer total spinning of the tank for x times
(x is what you like, i'm on 10 times every 60")

The agitation that I do is gentle but firm:
hold the bottom strongly with your hand and turn it upside down gently but
constantly the x times you decided. After that, to pdiloge bubbles created
inside tha tank knock your tank against your lab table.
Sorry for my english, I hope my words can be helpful the same!


Ciao,
Stefano Bramato

--
ed io imparo...<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about AP develop tank 

narke <steven.DeleteThis@lczmsoft.com> wrote:
 > Peter Irwin wrote,
 >
  >> it may help to put the cap on slowly.
 >
 > ? it heard a bit weird. Why slowly put on the cap helps in leak
 > reducing?

I'm not sure. It definitely seems to work better with the older style
Paterson tanks. Maybe the air pressure from putting the top cap on
quickly breaks the seal between the tank body and the lid.
t is certainly worth a try.

Peter.
--
pirwin.DeleteThis@ktb.net<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Questions about AP develop tank 

Stefano Bramato wrote,

 > The agitation that I do is gentle but firm:
hold the bottom strongly with your hand and turn it upside down gently
but
constantly the x times you decided. After that, to pdiloge bubbles
created
inside tha tank knock your tank against your lab table.

Ddi you mean you tap the tank everytime after an agitation? I often
see people on the forum do the tap only once just after(or before) the
initial agitation. Which method is better? It should be a
consequence that agitation itself can produce bubbles if tap tank is
necessary in every agitation.

-
narke<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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